Phil, what casino hospitality are players enjoying? At a fraction of the cost? Please be a tad more specific.
CS was developed at the Beau RIvage in BIloxi about eight years ago. Back then as now, we received offers for three day vacations at this hotel. These offers include round trip air fare, lodging and comps that could be used for food. After Katrina all the video poker odds on the Gulf Coast were slashed from near positive to 97% or less. The only way to keep from overpaying on these trips was to hit a royal and then it was a hit and miss proposition. If we played max coins like we were told to by the experts, a three day Biloxi trip could easily cost $3,000 or more.
I started experimenting with ways to reduce the cost of these trips. CS cut my losses from thousands to a few hundred. I was astonished to find the casino kept inviting us back. Playing with CS is much more exciting than making the same bet all the time. The first time I used it, I hit a max coin royal for $1,000. When you are only losing $50 a day and win $1,000 this gets your attention. I learned when playing seriously negative games like we have now, you must get control of your losses. Wins take care of themselves.
I am not selling CS. I'm not selling anything. I have no desire to market books, software or classes. I wrote about CS on this forum because I thought it may help someone. I realized most people would not use it. It takes discipline to play with CS. CS is about reducing risk, not making a profit that only comes to a few people out of a million.
Last edited by FloridaPhil on Sat Apr 04, 2020 12:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I still have to agree with Phil that luck is overwhelmingly the most important factor. Vulturing here and there give a few extra opportunities. Finding close to perfect paytables and playing perfect give you some extra shots at winning. But if you don't get royals, 4oak's, or other premium hands depending what game you are playing, you are dead in the water for a particular session you are playing. I have 2 friends in particular that do not look for perfect paytables. They play high volatility games. One in particular does not play anything except ult x. They both play a minimum of $10 a hand usually $25 and up. Normally 50 cent ult x 5 games for the ult x guy. You would not believe some of the luck they have had.
Actually, I would believe in some of the luck they've had -- both ways. With the inclusion of the highlighted passage in the quote above, which indicates short term results, I agree with everything you said. Luck is a big factor in the short term and I've been saying that all along.
Now, are either of your two friends in profit for life, or even since they started playing that way? If so, is it strictly from their play on the machines or do they generate their advantage through promotions?
There are actually more parallels between the experiences of the person who wrote "Million Dollar Video Poker" and myself than you may think.
That book, one of my favorites, was written when positive games were common and casinos made mistakes. The six month or so winning streak the author and his wife had was a fantastic turn of events. If you think about it, the results during that six months could have been similar over that period of time if the games they played were 97%. Concluding they happened when they did because the games were positive does not make sense.
I happened to enter the computer industry at a time when accounting systems where based on mechanical hardware or one write systems. There was a time when I was the only source of parts and service for hundreds of Burroughs and NCR accounting machines throughout Florida. I wasn't super intelligent. I had a total monopoly and it made me a lot of money. If I wrote a book back then called "Million Dollar Accounting Machines", would it still sell today? No, because the world has changed. Casinos have changed but the author is still selling the same story!
What we need are experts who will talk about playing games the everyday player with everyday skills has access to. The problem is those games are losers because the casinos made them that way. Who's side are the experts on?
I still have to agree with Phil that luck is overwhelmingly the most important factor. Vulturing here and there give a few extra opportunities. Finding close to perfect paytables and playing perfect give you some extra shots at winning. But if you don't get royals, 4oak's, or other premium hands depending what game you are playing, you are dead in the water for a particular session you are playing. I have 2 friends in particular that do not look for perfect paytables. They play high volatility games. One in particular does not play anything except ult x. They both play a minimum of $10 a hand usually $25 and up. Normally 50 cent ult x 5 games for the ult x guy. You would not believe some of the luck they have had.
Actually, I would believe in some of the luck they've had -- both ways. With the inclusion of the highlighted passage in the quote above, which indicates short term results, I agree with everything you said. Luck is a big factor in the short term and I've been saying that all along.
Now, are either of your two friends in profit for life, or even since they started playing that way? If so, is it strictly from their play on the machines or do they generate their advantage through promotions?
According to them they are. I have no idea how they do when I am not around but I would have to say both are ahead during the times I have seen them play. I am talking about holding one ace and pulling aces with a kicker with a 12 times multiplier. The only line with a 12 times multiplier I might add. The other player I am referring to does not play ult x. Mainly 3 or 5 play DDB or TDB. I have seen him hold a 3 before, throw the other cards away and pull three more 3's and the kicker for a handpay.
I never really look over their shoulder and watch them play but with both players we have discussed paytables and neither pays much attention to them. It is uncanny how many big hits they have had. They both agree it's all luck. Over time I would think they have had some bad stretches.
Phil, what casino hospitality are players enjoying? At a fraction of the cost? Please be a tad more specific.
CS was developed at the Beau RIvage in BIloxi about eight years ago. Back then as now, we received offers for three day vacations at this hotel. These offers include round trip air fare, lodging and comps that could be used for food. After Katrina all the video poker odds on the Gulf Coast were slashed from near positive to 97% or less. The only way to keep from overpaying on these trips was to hit a royal and then it was a hit and miss proposition. If we played max coins like we were told to by the experts, a three day Biloxi trip could easily cost $3,000 or more.
I started experimenting with ways to reduce the cost of these trips. CS cut my losses from thousands to a few hundred. I was astonished to find the casino kept inviting us back. Playing with CS is much more exciting than making the same bet all the time. The first time I used it, I hit a max coin royal for $1,000. When you are only losing $50 a day and win $1,000 this gets your attention. I learned when playing seriously negative games like we have now, you must get control of your losses. Wins take care of themselves.
I am not selling CS. I'm not selling anything. I have no desire to market books, software or classes. I wrote about CS on this forum because I thought it may help someone. I realized most people would not use it. It takes discipline to play with CS. CS is about reducing risk, not making a profit that only comes to a few people out of a million.
Phil, just a few questions about your post:
You state that you still receive "offers for three day vacations at this hotel." The question is a 2 parter: when was the last time you visited this casino and how often do you go to it?
You state "The first time I used it, I hit a max coin royal for $1,000.00. When you are only losing $50.00 a day and win $1,000.00 this gets your attention." My question here is also a 2 parter: Are you still using your Cheap System, CS, and if not, why not?
At the Florida casinos that you patronize now, what types of comps do you get there? I realize that you make a day trip out of it as it is a couple hour drive one way. Do you receive free hotel offers and if you do not take advantage of them, why not? What are the dollar amounts of the free play offers you receive? A rough idea will suffice, I'm not looking for exact.
Lastly, with what you wrote here about losing $50.00 per day and win $1,000.00, you are in fact: selling a dream to people that read your posts.
Phil
If luck plays such a big part then why do you worry about the odds? You used to play max coins when the odds were good (years ago)...why? You don't believe in long term as you say no one can reach it.
Gronbog has given you some very accurate advice over the last year but you ignore it. Flip a coin 10 times and you could get 9 heads and 1 tails. Flip that coin 1000 times and see if you can get 900 heads and 100 tails. The reason you can't do this is because true odds are starting to form. This is still short term but the longer you flip the closer you will come to 50/50. It is the same with video poker or any game.
I know you are a very smart guy by all you have accomplished in your life but for some reason you could never grasp or understand long term. It is much shorter than you think. You always ask for "guarantees" because you just can't wrap your head around it.
Gosh, lots of questions. We're going to be here awhile. No one's going anywhere, so here goes.
You state that you still receive "offers for three day vacations at this hotel." The question is a 2 parter: when was the last time you visited this casino and how often do you go to it?
Before Katrina, my wife and I visited the Beau Rivage about 4-5 times each year. After Katrina when the odds dropped, we cut that down to about 2-3. When the Florida Casinos installed class III machines, we dropped to one a year. I had planned to go on my birthday last February, but it didn't work out. Our last trip to the Beau Rivage was at Christmas. Christmas at the Beau Rivage is fantastic. People come from all around to see their displays. It's amazing.
You state "The first time I used it, I hit a max coin royal for $1,000.00. When you are only losing $50.00 a day and win $1,000.00 this gets your attention." My question here is also a 2 parter: Are you still using your Cheap System, CS, and if not, why not?
I don't always use CS. I consider my video poker results on a daily basis. To me, each day is a fresh start. If I feel like taking a chance on losing $300, I may play max coins. If I'm not in the mood to risk $300, I use CS. I can play CS video poker all day long with $100. If I find myself substantially ahead, I may move from CS to max coins. This happens often. I never take more money than I am willing to lose in a day. I never use ATM cards. On long trips, my wife is my banker. She lends me money and I pay her back. Believe me, she is a tough banker to deal with and keeps me in line.
At the Florida casinos that you patronize now, what types of comps do you get there? I realize that you make a day trip out of it as it is a couple hour drive one way. Do you receive free hotel offers and if you do not take advantage of them, why not? What are the dollar amounts of the free play offers you receive? A rough idea will suffice, I'm not looking for exact.
Until recently, the only hotel offers we received from the Florida casinos came from Hollywood. They have a huge hotel that needs to be filled. We can stay there any week night we want. It's a 4 hour drive to Hollywood. We normally stay 2-3 nights. We use these free hotel rooms often to visit our son who lives in South Florida. We were there a few months ago.
Now that the Tampa hotel is open, we are starting to get room offers from Tampa. Tampa is about 1 1/2 hours from our home. Tampa is a great facility. You wont find any positive games in the Southeast unless you count vulturing multipliers or some other such gimmicky plays. We last stayed overnight in Tampa just before the virus issue arouse.
If I play max coin quarters, my free play runs about $20 a week. Points accumulate fairly quickly, but they expire just as fast. I haven't paid for a lunch at a Florida Hard Rock casino in years. If I play CS, I earn no free play and no points. I continue to get room offers.
Lastly, with what you wrote here about losing $50.00 per day and win $1,000.00, you are in fact: selling a dream to people that read your posts.
It's not the amount of my wins that concern me, it's my losses. We can talk all day about winning. My computer is full of jackpot photos that I could post here. Some of them I have. Today's video poker is not about winning, it's about limiting losses. A photo of your wife standing next to a $400,000 royal is a wonderful thing to look at. It is meaningless unless you show her standing next to the millions of dollars you lost between wins. This is not a cheap shot at anyone. It's a fact.
I am not on this forum to take cheap shots or argue the definition of "long term". I believe we need to change the narrative from "beating the casino" to "preventing the casino from beating you". The key to doing this is finding ways to limit coin-in. I have played at casinos all over this country and Canada. Positive video poker games are rare and getting rarer every day. What happens when you don't discuss negative game strategy is players play like they have an advantage when they don't. I want to change that. This will never happen because too much money is being made the way we teach things now.
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