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Deuces Wild
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pidge
- Forum Newbie
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- Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:06 pm
Deuces Wild
I am working with VPW and Jeans Scott's programs with deuces wild only. MY tests are at 96% all of the time. Is this good enough to be successful at the casino? Second question. What is are reasonable expectations to win in 3-4 hour sessions on a quarter machine if you play properly? I find that unless you get 4 deuces, your best hope is to break even. I feel like I am treading water most of the time waiting for 4 deuces. Is this reality?
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Eduardo
- Video Poker Master
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- Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:19 pm
I've played mostly deuces in the casino. That's been my experience... very very slow declines and gains that either drain you in the long run or end up good if you hit that "pop" of a royal or deuces.
Works great for a small bankroll. Lower risk because of lower variance, but while you can last a long time, you also don't have many hands that can be big winners.
It's good for building up coin-in for comps, which is another reason I have played it in my limited experience.
If you switch to a game like DDB, you can burn your bankroll very quickly but if you hit some quads early on you will be happy.
Works great for a small bankroll. Lower risk because of lower variance, but while you can last a long time, you also don't have many hands that can be big winners.
It's good for building up coin-in for comps, which is another reason I have played it in my limited experience.
If you switch to a game like DDB, you can burn your bankroll very quickly but if you hit some quads early on you will be happy.
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shadowman
- Video Poker Master
- Posts: 3587
- Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:42 pm
If your at 96% accuracy then you are probably a little too low, unless all your errors are extremely minor. The real number you want is your expected return. That is your accuracy combined with the types of mistakes you are making. This number that will tell you how much you can expect to win or lose when you play. I don't have either program so I'm not sure the exact terminology they use. WVP uses "ret. accuracy" which may be the same as FVP.
I assume you mean full play deuces wild (FPDW) when you say "deuces". There are lots of variations of the game that have different play dynamics. Many of the bonus deuces wild games are more bumpy. However, with standard FPDW you will see a more gradual loss pattern (treading water) and a big jump when you hit deuces.
Keep in mind that even with deuces included the perfect play payback of FPDW is around 99%. You will still need to see an occasional royal flush to come out ahead for your play and then only if your error rate is low enough.
This weekend I did a short FPDW session and came out 300 credits ahead with 3 wild royals and a couple of 5 of a kinds in 1/2 hour of play. So, you can win in the short term every now and then.
I assume you mean full play deuces wild (FPDW) when you say "deuces". There are lots of variations of the game that have different play dynamics. Many of the bonus deuces wild games are more bumpy. However, with standard FPDW you will see a more gradual loss pattern (treading water) and a big jump when you hit deuces.
Keep in mind that even with deuces included the perfect play payback of FPDW is around 99%. You will still need to see an occasional royal flush to come out ahead for your play and then only if your error rate is low enough.
This weekend I did a short FPDW session and came out 300 credits ahead with 3 wild royals and a couple of 5 of a kinds in 1/2 hour of play. So, you can win in the short term every now and then.
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aceswithakicker
- Forum Rookie
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- Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2007 3:15 am
Yeah, I completely agree with you Shadow. This too has been my experience playing NSUD, which happens to be the closest to full pay I can find. I've played for hours and hours before on $100 single line .25 machine. And like any game, there will be sessions that you might hit deuces 2 or 3 times, and others you won't see them at all. Often times I could come out ahead on this game in the very short term as well, but I usually tend to break even by the time I'm "tired" of playing it.
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EDC1977
- Video Poker Master
- Posts: 2001
- Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 3:12 pm
Gentlemen, I concur. I've done ok playing DWB hitting 5OAK and WRF's also 5A's. Never at a huge profit but enough to sustain a playable balance and some pocket money. I don't know about Deuces variance but I find it difficult to win!
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Eduardo
- Video Poker Master
- Posts: 2963
- Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:19 pm
Well, as most of you know I have only played on 2 trips so far, but I do owe all of my winnings to Deuces. I mostly lost playing DDB but hit Deuces on the Loose Deuce for 2500 and that's put me ahead so far in my play.
Over the long haul, I'd imagine it's as good as any game if the payback is right, but it's true that the "big hits" are less frequent, being pretty much just deuces or a royal. I know people like quad hunting and when that pays back in the hundreds (and more for a kicker) it can be satisfying.
Over the long haul, I'd imagine it's as good as any game if the payback is right, but it's true that the "big hits" are less frequent, being pretty much just deuces or a royal. I know people like quad hunting and when that pays back in the hundreds (and more for a kicker) it can be satisfying.
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pidge
- Forum Newbie
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- Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:06 pm
I saw a website advertising 100.77 payback for optimal strategy and 100.71 for simple strategy on full play deuces wild. I have also seen Bob Dancer talk of numbers like these......Is this a bunch of BS ?
How do you determine if a machine is full pay, just by checking the pay schedule? Thanks for your help you guys....
How do you determine if a machine is full pay, just by checking the pay schedule? Thanks for your help you guys....
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New2vp
- Video Poker Master
- Posts: 1850
- Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2006 4:02 am
I saw a website advertising 100.77 payback for optimal strategy and 100.71 for simple strategy on full play deuces wild. I have also seen Bob Dancer talk of numbers like these......Is this a bunch of BS ?
How do you determine if a machine is full pay, just by checking the pay schedule? Thanks for your help you guys....
I'll guess that you were looking at the Wizard of Odds Web site. It is not BS, but for some reason, he rounded the optimal strategy up from 100.762% to 100.77%. Unless you are in Vegas though it is hard to find these games. Others on this site can tell you a Web site to check for where to look for FPDW.
You are right about checking the pay schedule. Look on this Web site for any Deuces Wild game that pays 5 for four of a kind and look at the rest of the pay schedule. That is the one that you want to look for if you want to use the Wizard's strategy.
How do you determine if a machine is full pay, just by checking the pay schedule? Thanks for your help you guys....
I'll guess that you were looking at the Wizard of Odds Web site. It is not BS, but for some reason, he rounded the optimal strategy up from 100.762% to 100.77%. Unless you are in Vegas though it is hard to find these games. Others on this site can tell you a Web site to check for where to look for FPDW.
You are right about checking the pay schedule. Look on this Web site for any Deuces Wild game that pays 5 for four of a kind and look at the rest of the pay schedule. That is the one that you want to look for if you want to use the Wizard's strategy.
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shadowman
- Video Poker Master
- Posts: 3587
- Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:42 pm
I saw a website advertising 100.77 payback for optimal strategy and 100.71 for simple strategy on full play deuces wild. I have also seen Bob Dancer talk of numbers like these......Is this a bunch of BS ?
How do you determine if a machine is full pay, just by checking the pay schedule? Thanks for your help you guys....
Yes, as new2vp indicated, checking paytables is required. However, it's often a good idea to dig a little deeper. As I indicated above the payback of FPDW is 99% without the RF. It is also around 95% when deuces are not considered. By understanding these values and how often these jackpots hands come around you can get a good feeling for what to expect between the big hits.
I know of many people who have lost initially when they start playing positive VP games and immediately assumed the casinos must be cheating. It helps to have a realistic idea of what to expect and to understand that results will vary substantially from individual to individual.
How do you determine if a machine is full pay, just by checking the pay schedule? Thanks for your help you guys....
Yes, as new2vp indicated, checking paytables is required. However, it's often a good idea to dig a little deeper. As I indicated above the payback of FPDW is 99% without the RF. It is also around 95% when deuces are not considered. By understanding these values and how often these jackpots hands come around you can get a good feeling for what to expect between the big hits.
I know of many people who have lost initially when they start playing positive VP games and immediately assumed the casinos must be cheating. It helps to have a realistic idea of what to expect and to understand that results will vary substantially from individual to individual.
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Eduardo
- Video Poker Master
- Posts: 2963
- Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:19 pm
Always, always, always check the pay table and try to learn ahead of time what the numbers mean as far as return.
I've sat down at a bar top with terrible pay tables to play while I had a drink. I think it's okay to do if you are a gambler, but you want to know what you are getting yourself into at the time. As a result, I played much more slowly and with vey few bills so I could get back on the floor to the better machines. Heck, a royal almost always pays 4K so you can take a few whacks at that on any machine. But you have to realize that you are going to drain your bankroll much more quickly if you keep it up than if you were playing the exact same game on another machine with a better pay table.
So just like a spin on the roulette wheel can be fun at times, I personally would only play these machines in moderation when the circumstances call for it. I would not make it a part of my regular routine if better machines were available, so that's why at least knowing what the pay tables mean is a very important start.
You don't have to have every pay table memorized to the exact percentage point. But knowing the basics of what to look for in the different games is very very helpful, especially when comparing machines in the same casino.
Sometimes playing at the .25 cent level you will have worse pay tables than at the dollar level on the exact same machine or the other way around. That's another thing to look at. Press a few buttons on the screen before you sit down and know how to read them.
I've sat down at a bar top with terrible pay tables to play while I had a drink. I think it's okay to do if you are a gambler, but you want to know what you are getting yourself into at the time. As a result, I played much more slowly and with vey few bills so I could get back on the floor to the better machines. Heck, a royal almost always pays 4K so you can take a few whacks at that on any machine. But you have to realize that you are going to drain your bankroll much more quickly if you keep it up than if you were playing the exact same game on another machine with a better pay table.
So just like a spin on the roulette wheel can be fun at times, I personally would only play these machines in moderation when the circumstances call for it. I would not make it a part of my regular routine if better machines were available, so that's why at least knowing what the pay tables mean is a very important start.
You don't have to have every pay table memorized to the exact percentage point. But knowing the basics of what to look for in the different games is very very helpful, especially when comparing machines in the same casino.
Sometimes playing at the .25 cent level you will have worse pay tables than at the dollar level on the exact same machine or the other way around. That's another thing to look at. Press a few buttons on the screen before you sit down and know how to read them.
