NEW TO VP, NEED TO KNOW THIS!?

[Ace_In_The_Hole]

Hello, I'm still just studying VP, I'm reading The VP advantage book. and I've checked a few things online. I'm just trying to figure out about this 99.75% and 100.7% Return.My reason:1) The book says that if you bet $300 at 100.75% return, you will get $302 per hour of play. and so on. It also says play $12k at perfect strategy to make a few bucksMy question:1) How do people make money with such horrible win to bet ratio?  I keep reading from websites that you can make money from VP without having to hit the Royal Flush.  Can someone explain how can you make a few hundred dollars ($300 - $800) from VP (i.e. Jacks or Better) without hitting the Royal Flush.  I need to know this, because I'm confused with the book and wizardsofodds site.Could someone explain this to me.Thank you,ginx10k

[oej719]

[MikeA]

1) How do people make money with such horrible win to bet ratio? 
 
You can "make money" with a less than 100% return game.  You make up the negative return with the Cash Back (Bounce Back) offers from the Casinos and other Player's Club rewards, some of which might not appeal to you.
 
But as with most gambling propositions, you need to run a lot of coin through to get those offers.  The more you run through the machines, the more Cash Back and Bounce Back offers you'll get.
 
But it is sort of a Catch-22.  Most people who have enough money to really make any significant amount of money at Video Poker probably have enough that the percentage that they win is insignificant! 
 
I don't think all that many people who are not rich to start with are going to get rich playing VP.
 
I, myself, consider it entertainment and I win if I come close to breaking even.

[shadowman]

I think I've heard the comment "don't give up your day job" more than once when people ask about making a living playing VP. Sure, there are a few who do this and they put lot's of money through the machines to make just a little. There's also risk. The casinos are not in business to give away money, but it is possible to win money if you educate yourself.
 
In your example, you won't make $2 every hour. You'll lose a hundred here and there and win it back here and there. Over hundreds and hundreds of hours putting $300 through every hour, you will average out to around $2/hour (assuming perfect strategy). This past week I put $30K through the machines and won $1500. The week before I put about the same money through and lost $3800. I am ahead for the year but this should give you a little idea what it takes.
 
You might want to start out with a couple of books. 'The Video Poker Edge" and "The Frugal Gambler" are two good starting points. Also, continue to ask question here and we'll try to help.

[ginxxxx]

 . Also, continue to ask questions here and we'll try to help.

[EDC1977]

 
. Also, continue to ask questions here and we'll try to help.[/QUOTE] C'mon Ginny, Webman will keep everything on the up and up!

[Eduardo]

Remember, it's still gambling.  You need to play a LOT to get the expected return. Otherwise, you may win a lot in a short time, or lose a lot. VP is one of the only games where you can actually have an advantage over the house IF you manage to play perfectly. But don't be fooled by any argument that there are certain ways to play that give you an even greater edge over the house, even without ever hitting a royal flush. If you think the casinos are that stupid to carry such a game, ask yourself how they pay their electric bill. It's a great game to play, and possibly the smartest bet in the casino. But don't fall for gimmicky systems. There is a lot of knowledge out there to teach you to play "correctly" and maximize your return on each hand. That doesn't mean you can't take risks to make more. But that just increases the "gamble" and is less likely to win at all, in exchange for a potentially bigger win. But you give up more of an advantage to the house.

[cddenver]

You can "make money" with a less than 100% return game.  You make up the negative return with the Cash Back (Bounce Back) offers from the Casinos and other Player's Club rewards, some of which might not appeal to you.
 
But it is sort of a Catch-22.  Most people who have enough money to really make any significant amount of money at Video Poker probably have enough that the percentage that they win is insignificant! 

 
Most of the years that I've finished ahead the return has been between 0.5%-1.5% based on total play, and that's usually due to the various CB/BB offers that I take advantage of.  My very, very, best year in 15 years of play worked out to just over 3%, with about half of that being CB/BB.  Other than that one year, I'd make more money working at Mickey D's.  Steadier income as well, and honest work.  "Can I have a kicker with those Aces, please?  And Supersize them, too"
 
In another message in this thread shadowman pointed out that you need to look at ***NET*** $'s per hour played, where you're including those losing hours as well.  I think most people attach too much importance to their winning, and not enough to their losing...gotta put them both together.  I'd recommend that any regular VP player keep a notebook with at least two pieces of info for every session - $'s won/lost, and hours played.  Go through those numbers periodically and calculate the net $'s per hour...ouch...

[shadowman]

I'd recommend that any regular VP player keep a notebook with at least two pieces of info for every session - $'s won/lost, and hours played.  Go through those numbers periodically and calculate the net $'s per hour...ouch...
 
If you use a spreadsheet it will calculate those number for you. I keep two separate numbers (I also look at comps). For example, last year my wife and I eared $14.86/hour gambling and $3.02/hour in comps.

[Eduardo]

cd, you should also note what pay tables you are playing on.  If you do most of your play on those low paying colorado pay tables, 3% isn't too bad over long term for a year right?