RNG's

[Vol]

There’s a lot of discussion on this site, at least indirectly, about the integrity of the random number generator (RNG) and those who may have some control over it.  Of course, if the RNG can be messed with, all the statistical strategy is worthless.  Yet there is still talk on the site about ‘hot’ and ‘cold’ machines, etc.
 
I ask if there might be a middle ground, namely the RNG’s have integrity, but are not perfectly random.  It seems to me that at times successive hands are correlated.  If I am dealt. e.g. ‘two pair’, it seems that two or three ‘two pair’ are likely to follow.  Similarly for ’four to a flush’ or an ‘outside straight.’  (Unfortunately I have never experienced this for 4’s or royals.)
 
Another observation, if I am playing a three hand game, and am dealt and hold a ‘pair’ or ‘threes’, the 9 or 6 drawn cards do not seem to be random.  For example, if holding ‘threes’ I might get the same pair for two of the three hands.
 
I have no data on this, just impressions. Anybody else experience anything similar?  In any case, if there were any validity, I would have no idea how to use it to my advantage.

[Eduardo]

Patterns are a natural result of randomness. Our inclination to notice such things while ignoring non-patterns magnifies this.

[shadowman]

As Eduardo mentioned, a random stream of cards will have noticeable patterns that will change over time. If it didn't, it wouldn't be random. Many people think random means a smooth, even distribution. Nope, that is not random. They even had an episode on Numb3rs a couple of years ago where this was mentioned.
 
 

[Lucky Larry]

Shadowman,
Clarification since we are talking about the RNG. In multi-hand VP say playing 9 hands and holding 4 on the dealt hand each of the remaining hands is given a separate RNG generated card correct? 9 cards

In Spin Poker holding 4 cards how many random numbers are generated for the remaining slots? 3 cards?

The reason I ask is we have discussed amongst ourselves if pay tables being equal is playing 9 hands say of multi-hand or SP better to play?   

We understand that if the luck deals you the 5th cards a RF on Spin the possible impact. But you only have three chances right?

Thanks,

LL   

[shadowman]

Yes, you only have 3 chances, however, those 3 chances affect mulitple pay lines. Same average return.

[Lucky Larry]

Shadowman,
Thanks for the quick response. We understand, it seems to us, anecdotally, that we have hit more playing 10 hands of multi-play then we have on Spin. We have had big hits on both. Of course our daughter feels just the opposite but she plays Spin a lot more than we do.

Always trying to better understand the game so we can play smarter or at least have a better knowledge of what is probable not just possible.

Thank again for all that you add to the forum. We have learned so much from you masters.

LL   

[tmcc74]

Ok since this is posted "RNG", Ill ask this. Say youve held your choice of cards from the DEAL. You havent hit the DRAW button yet. Are these(future) cards still spinning or changing all the way up to the physical press of the Draw button, or are the pre-determined on the original Deal? How do we know what system each casino uses? I also frequent Indian casinos because thats my only choice. The only patterns that I have seen are losing patterns and being dealt 4 to the royal about 1000 times not to hit it.

[spxChrome]

Its been beat to death, the theory is it keeps spinning until you hit deal.  I believe it plays just like poker, the next 5 cards are already on top of the deck.  But don't confuse that with being under the dealt card.
 
Think of it like a live poker game, you don't keep shuffling until you are ready to draw and you dont lay the 5 draw cards under each card you were dealt.
 
Instead you toss 3 you get the next 3 off the top.  That is how it has been explained to me by one machine manfac.  they say - we want to simulate live action as close as possible and this is the closest methodology."
 

[shadowman]

Ok since this is posted "RNG", Ill ask this. Say youve held your choice of cards from the DEAL. You havent hit the DRAW button yet. Are these(future) cards still spinning or changing all the way up to the physical press of the Draw button, or are the pre-determined on the original Deal? How do we know what system each casino uses? I also frequent Indian casinos because thats my only choice. The only patterns that I have seen are losing patterns and being dealt 4 to the royal about 1000 times not to hit it.


 
For all IGT built machines in the last 10 years (Game King technology) the RNG keeps spinning and the draw cards are not determined until you actually press the deal/draw button. IGT has stated this in press releases so there is no doubt. As for other VP machines, I've never seen anything quoted.
 
If you are playing machines older than 10 years, 10 cards are selected when the the hand is first dealt and the draw will use the 2nd five cards in sequential order.
 
I won't even bother with the parallel method as this is now 20 years old.
 
Also remember that the casinos themselves do not build or program VP machines. They have no choice as to the RNG mechanism used by the manufacturer of the machines.

[BillyJoe]

The other point that hasn't been mentioned, and I think should be, is that prior results have NO bearing on future results in VP. The chances of getting dealt a 2nd RF on the very next hand on the same or even a different machine after you were dealt an RF on one machine are the same as the the chances for getting dealt the 1st RF. Do you agree Shadowman?