Playing Negative Games

[FloridaPhil]

My wife and I travel a lot and play video poker all over the country.  On a recent 6,000 mile road trip from Florida to Vegas and back the only positive games we ran into were in Vegas.   These games were only positive assuming the cash back, comps or progressives were worth enough to bump you over the edge.  We treat VP strictly as a hobby and believe all gambling is a long term financial losing game one way or the other.  I realize some people make a living gambling, but considering how much time and effort they put into this way of life, we think they would do better at other financial endeavors. 
 
The problem we have with the "don't play negative games" statement is that it doesn't consider fun as having any value.  We stay at fabulous hotels for free (occasionally they even pick up our air fare), our meals are almost always comped and all we have to do is play games we love to play.  I've never had a hobby that actually paid us anything.   I've spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on boats, race cars, fishing trips and every other diversion you could think of and never had any of them give me any of my money back.  We have four choices; move to Vegas, gamble only in Vegas and try to make up the cost of the airfare and travel expenses, play negative games and enjoy myself or quit playing VP all together.  My wife and I use Dancer's Video Poker for Winners software and can both play for hours at about 98%.  She plays JB and I play DDB or DW.  We keep separate "stashes", track our cash flow and compare the cost of gambling on negative games with the fun and comps we gain from paying.  We both have other sources of income and consider it normal for us to add money to the pool once in a while. So far, we think we are ahead of the game even though we are still long term money losers. 
 

[foozie]

VERY WELL SAID, AND MAY YOU AND YOUR WIFE CONTINUE TO ENJOY WHAT MY WIFE AND I HAVE KNOWN FOR SOME TIME, "ALL-IN-ALL" THIS IS REALLY A PRETTY
CHEAP WAY TO TRAVEL.

[royal flush]

atleast you are playing vp vs slots but you would have more fun playing better games and playing them more correctly. some slightly negative games become "good plays" when you count comps rooms , food , bonus points cash back so have more fun so your stash of cash can last and possibly grow

[Frank Kneeland]

My wife and I travel a lot and play video poker all over the country.  On a recent 6,000 mile road trip from Florida to Vegas and back the only positive games we ran into were in Vegas.   These games were only positive assuming the cash back, comps or progressives were worth enough to bump you over the edge.  We treat VP strictly as a hobby and believe all gambling is a long term financial losing game one way or the other.  I realize some people make a living gambling, but considering how much time and effort they put into this way of life, we think they would do better at other financial endeavors.   The problem we have with the "don't play negative games" statement is that it doesn't consider fun as having any value.  We stay at fabulous hotels for free (occasionally they even pick up our air fare), our meals are almost always comped and all we have to do is play games we love to play.  I've never had a hobby that actually paid us anything.   I've spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on boats, race cars, fishing trips and every other diversion you could think of and never had any of them give me any of my money back.  We have four choices; move to Vegas, gamble only in Vegas and try to make up the cost of the airfare and travel expenses, play negative games and enjoy myself or quit playing VP all together.  My wife and I use Dancer's Video Poker for Winners software and can both play for hours at about 98%.  She plays JB and I play DDB or DW.  We keep separate "stashes", track our cash flow and compare the cost of gambling on negative games with the fun and comps we gain from paying.  We both have other sources of income and consider it normal for us to add money to the pool once in a while. So far, we think we are ahead of the game even though we are still long term money losers. 
Personally, I have never said that fun has no value. I have expressed great concern over the source of people's fun where gambling is involved. Yours seems to come from the things it gets you, and you don't appear to have illusions about "winning", etc...If your post is any indication, you'd be in a very low risk factor category to have your hobby turn into a problem. Enjoy yourself...I've been trying to do this more myself lately.I Play at the Palms almost strictly for fun, food, and friendship and I am really enjoying my time there. I tend to rush through the playing the machines part since for me that's dull, but yes, fun is not a four letter word to me...unless you spell it with two "u".My best wishes to you and have all the fun you can muster.~FK

[backsider]

A thread I can relate to. Keep it up Phil. If I were able to drive around the USA Id be doing the same thing. 

[Eduardo]

I think this is a common misperception of "math people." I actually don't think I've seen anyone here say not to play negative expectation games. I have certainly seem them say you should understand the expectations of doing so, and you should not expect any strategy to overcome the fact that you are playing a negative expectaion game. Those are the two problems a lot of people have. Some people might say they would never play a negative expectation machine, but I've never heard them say others shouldn't. Maybe I've just missed it. I have played my share of negative games, and done alright for the most part on them. But I don't play as much as many people do, so I don't worry about taking a real gamble here and there. I've been lucky and like you, I play for fun not as a job like Frank. But when I find myself in a situation where there are only negative options, I still look for the best options available in the casino. There is a big difference between 9/6 and 9/5 even though they are both negative. Why throw away 5 coins every time you get a flush when you could be sitting a couple rows over?  So don't ignore pay tables just because you are there to have fun. You will get more enjoyment by choosing well.

[foozie]

   FLORIDA PHIL:  TO EXPAND ON YOUR POSTING, THIS SUMMER HARRAH'S HAD THE GREAT RACE TO REWARDS PROGRAM. WE LIVE CLOSE ENOUGH TO HARRAH'S ST.LOUIS TO GET THE FIRST STOP EASY., NO ROOM NEEDED BUT ATE ON THEM. 2ND LEG OF THE TRIP WAS TUNICA HORSESHOE COMPED ROOM AND MEALS THEN BACK UP TO METROPOLIS IL. HARRAHS COMPED MEAL, THEN HOME. 3RD LEG OF TRIP TO KANSAS CITY HARRAHS THEN UP TO COUNCIL BLUFFS IA. HARRAH'S BOTH PLACES COMPED ROOMS AND MEALS. 4TH LEG OF TRIP TO HORSESHOE SOUTHERN IN. WITH A COMPED ROOM AND MEALS. "6" STOPS TOTAL IN 4 DIFFERENT WEEKENDS WHICH GOT THE WIFE AND I EACH 60,000 REWARD CREDITS OR $1,200.00 TOTAL. MY TOTAL PLAY WAS $253.00 LOSS. MY WIFE CAME OUT A LITTLE OVER $100.00 AHEAD. WE PLAY MOSTLY NICKEL VP AND WE ALL KNOW THAT HARRAHS DOESNT HAVE FULL PAY MACHINES, BUT ALL IN ALL A WINNING CONTEST FOR US. WE BOTH ARE ONLY PLATINUM PLAYERS.
  IN THE SMALL TOWN WE ARE FROM I KNOW OF "4" OTHER COUPLES WHO DID THE SAME AND MADE ALL "6" LOCATIONS.

[OTABILL]

Phil, couldn't agree more with your philosophy.

 

Many years ago, I read John Scarne's Complete Guide to
Gambling. In it, he said (to paraphrase) one should look at gambling as entertainment
and budget how much money to spend on it much as you would if going to the
theater, playing golf, attending a sports event, going to a theme park, etc.
Scarne added, however, unlike those other activities, you might come out ahead
financially - a bonus.

 

That is how my wife and I view VP.  We  are
also recreational VP players who enjoy going out from time-to-time to one of our
local Native American casinos. We like DDB and normally only on a progressive
machine so we frequent the casinos that have those machines. We usually play the
progressives regardless of whether we might get better odds on other DDB or VP
formats such as DW or JOB.  We  play for entertainment and don't expect to
come out winners on a regular basis. We do want to get the maximum amount of
play time on our budget and hopefully get some nice hands like AWAK that extend
our playing time and also the likelihood we leave with more money than when we
arrived. What is frustrating is when we run into a streak where our budgeted funds
run out too quickly.

 

The bottom line is we play for fun. Why play a game you
don't enjoy because the pay table is better. We would rather stay home. The
object, as Phil said, is to have a pleasurable experience even if you don't win
any money.

[Tomcat1569]

Well, just for argument's sake I saw a guy playing 10-play 25c 7/5 (98%) BP at a Caesars property last week. He said that with all the cash back and free play he receives for his action he makes a nice side income. Go figure!