Comp Question

[Rayser]

I will try to keep this brief and still make myself clear, if possible. Just got back from a Vegas trip.  Nothing spectacular, but the wife hit a royal flush on .25 machine for $1k had a few other feeders, and was able to come back ahead. prior to leaving the hotel, stopped to see the casino host as usual and ask to have some food charges comped.  We never had a problem at this particular casino, they always picked up our room food and beverage.  This time however, the host stated he could not comp our food charges stating that we didnt have enough play. (our room, and some free slot play had already been comped on a mailer we got).  Not a big deal, but was curious as our play level is always about the same. I had made friends with the Casino Vice President about a year ago while playing golf, so I contacted him to see if there was a policy change. I got a very curteous explanation of the comp policy as follows:  The casino host is able to authorize comps if they fall into one of two categories.  The first category is theoretical hold, he explained that the theoretical hold on VP is about 1% of the money we put into a VP machine.  The host can use that 1% to pay for comps.  The 2nd category is actual win/loss.  The host could choose either the theoretical hold or actual loss to give back in comps, whichever is higher. It appears that since we did not lose money, the host could only rely on the theoretical hold percent, and that was not enough to cover all RF&B.  Now here is my question on being able to game the system (sorry this took so long). Since your wins and losses are recorded on your players card, is it possible to fake large losses by removing your card from the machine before it records a large winning hand? For example, lets say you are dealt a royal flush, SF, 4OAK, FH, etc. Prior to holding the cards and hit the draw button, you remove your players card so that it does not record the win.  All of your losing hands along with break even or small hands and any big hands you may catch on the draw would be recorded. In most cases this would make you look like you lost more money than you actually did thereby giving a host more latitude in issuing comps.  Do you think this would work?

[olds442jetaway]

Good question, although it is not something I would do myself. Stuff like that always will somehow one way or the other come back and bite you in the behind. Taking it a step further, does pulling your card before cashing out have any effect at all on recorded wins or losses or how about forgetting to put your card in before you put the cash into the machine? Could that trigger a recording of wins that you really didn't have? The only thing I am sure of somewhat related to the above is a W-2G is issued to the person sitting at and playing the machine when the big win hits, no matter whose card happens to be in the machine at the time.

[BillyJoe]

I am sure this could vary from casino to casino, Rayser, but I think you received a pretty straight answer from your Casino Exec golfing buddy. Amount of play and losses are ways that a host can offset charges, unless you are earning Reward Credits, which could also be used. The host usually has some 'wiggle room', and if you are a regular loyal patron, may stretch the comps a bit beyond what the numbers say. Also, if your amount of play varies dramatically day to day on a particular trip, this may make your play numbers look smaller if you had a couple of low-playing days.  
 
As far as your 'card pull' thoughts, Players Card systems know who made the bet, and records the associated outcome, win or lose, whether the card is in the machine or not.   

[Lucky Larry]

Rayser,
Sweet C and I decided we'd like to stay at our favorite casino over New Year's Eve. We realized we didn't have an offer and VIP services confirmed we weren't on the offer list based on "Average Daily Play (ADP)".    So we asked to speak to a host and inquired about getting reservations. He knew we were regulars (30+ overnight trips/year) and indicated he would check with marketing. A few hours later we had our two day New Year's Eve reservations. While we didn't fit the high "ADP", combined we had close to 800K points play for the year. We also know from marketing that the casino only had 7 - single "Millionaire" point players for the past year. This wasn't our first time to realize that the casino first looks at high ADP and foregoes the regulars. So we've learned to ask for a review of our overall combined points. As a slot director once told us, "High Rollers are great to have around when they lose but, its the regulars who pay the casino's bills".

Surprising we had a New Year's Eve room/meals offer from a casino we only played at once this year and hadn't been to in over 5 years. When we went we had played hard to reach a set point goal on our trip and it was evidently sufficient to warrant an offer.

We've also learned to try to leave a little of our bonus points cash on our cards when we check out and ask for comps. The hosts seemed to be more agreeable to comping when they see you've left some cash on the card. Perhaps this is just our perception but that's our recent experiences when we visit casinos we don't usually play.

[shadowman]

Card pulling was a common trick several years ago and used by many advantage players. However, the newer systems have eliminated that option by recording the "current card" when the bet is made (pressing deal) and tying whatever result occurs to the card that placed the bet.
 


There may still be a few casinos using older systems so I guess it never hurts to try.

[Rayser]

Thanks Shadowman,its interesting how technology is that sophisticated. I don't think I am even going to try it, as I am grateful to get the comps that I do and don't want to get labled as cheating the system. I am not sure what the casino host would do if they caught on. I think gaming the comp system goes on in black jack and other table games where people rathole some larger denomination chips so it doesn't look like they have won much, or taking extended bathroom breaks while leaving chips at the table.  Card pulling at VP would be much more overt and provable if they wanted to accuse you of cheating the comp system. Thanks All.  

[DrawingDead]

I have been living in Henderson NV for over 12 years. I used to play with my players card (Station Casino Chairman status). I don't use it anymore. Free room or dinner here or there. Doesn't make sense to me. As much as I play, the comps are awful. Maybe they comp more for players coming in town. But I am ok with it.

[BillyJoe]

I have been living in Henderson NV for over 12 years. I used to play with my players card (Station Casino Chairman status). I don't use it anymore. Free room or dinner here or there. Doesn't make sense to me. As much as I play, the comps are awful. Maybe they comp more for players coming in town. But I am ok with it.
AS an out of towner, that's why I play on the Strip. Lower paytables, yes, but much more in comps.

[DrawingDead]

I don't like playing on the strip. I have much better success off the strip. But that's me

[Quad Deuces]

Try it.  You'll see that the machine knows there's a "CARDED SESSION IN PROGRESS."  Also listen to Bob's Gambling with an Edge radio show with the fine folks from IGT from a few weeks ago.http://www.bobdancer.com/radio.cfmSimple matter of programming.  Sounds like they've caught up.