How do I eak out that last 2% of perfect play?

[roveer]

So as much as I am curious to get some answers to this question, I am also hoping to spark some discussion on the topic. I prefer to gamble when the casino is quiet, usually late at night.  But sometimes I'm there prime time and with lots of people around.  I see time and time again folks holding the wrong cards.  Playing JOB stratedgy on a DDB game.  Holding all sorts of things with a Pair of Aces but then finding a 4 card straight or flush.  In one way I'm happy to have them there.  They are putting money into the machines that I'm hoping to take back out and I guess at one time I played like that too.  But let me get to the point of my question. For the better part of 2+ years I've been using the ipad app from Videopoker.com for STP which has built in a trainer of sorts.  It tells me when I've held the wrong hand and keeps track of my play.  So when I'm paying attention I'm usually playing at 97-98%.  Playing at home is very different than playing in the casino.  Any little thing (a thought in my mind) and all of a sudden it's beeping at me and crushing my %.  At the casino I think I'm (me at least) concentrating on what I'm doing much more than I do at home. So 98%.  This gives me a bunch of hands that I can't seem to tackle.  I'm hoping that those hands since they are so esoteric are costing me the least.  I was going to snapshot them on my iPad but never got around to it.  I guess that wouldn't be a bad idea then I could share them here.  From what I remember, most of the hands I get wrong at this point have be somewhat baffled as to why I should hold them.  Either that or hold this way if it's this set of cards and hold that way if it's that set of cards.  No good way to get any memory other than thousands and thousands of seeing and memorizing them.  I've actually been able to add a bunch of troubleing hands to my "got it now" category just by gutting it out. So at 98% is it worth pushing for 100% or is % loss somewhat low and while I should keep trying to improve, not something that I should obcess over? Let's talk... Roveer 

[wilcoxfun]

I keep going back to learn because I make mistakes every once in awhile that are costly. I want the 99% at least each time I play. So I guess I am like you trying hard to get that number higher. I think it is worth the time to study at home before going into the casino.

[chattycattty]

If I could ask for one change in this website it would be to improve the training mode. It is not enough to know that you played 98 out of 100 hands correct. When I misplay a hand I want to know the magnitude of my mistake and how it affects the overall EV of the session.

Please WEBMAN add a better training mode. I would pay extra for it. Please don't suggest buying training program. I prefer the convenience of playing the variety of VP games on this website.

[onemoretry]

So at 98% is it worth pushing for 100% or is % loss somewhat low and while I should keep trying to improve, not something that I should obcess over
I believe that the effect on game return is a lot more important than the actual number of errors. So, if you're playing at 98% accuracy in terms of numbers of errors, but the errors are all of the miniscule variety, it's probably not worth sweating over. But, if there are some significant errors in there, it should be a concern.

When I practise on the computer at home, I am not satisfied unless I achieve at least 99.95% of the theoretical return.

P.S. I had not seen chattycattty's post when I sent this.

[chattycattty]

Great minds think alike.

[roveer]

If I could ask for one change in this website it would be to improve the training mode. It is not enough to know that you played 98 out of 100 hands correct. When I misplay a hand I want to know the magnitude of my mistake and how it affects the overall EV of the session.

Please WEBMAN add a better training mode. I would pay extra for it. Please don't suggest buying training program. I prefer the convenience of playing the variety of VP games on this website.

What I can add to this is that Bob Dancers software will give you an indication of the cost of the mistake. I believe (it's been a long time since I used it), it will tell you the amount of the error and categorize it as minor and major.

One thing I have found missing is any strategy whether in book or on-line is any explanation of the mistake. Maybe it's just impossible to create a document or system that could properly describe it but most strategy's are just lists of correct play from RF down to single card holds. With VP having 2MM+ combinations it's not possible to memorize rather just to create series or groupings of proper holds and train yourself. I think I did start to "snapshot" hands that I just can't master. I have to go back on my ipad and see what I have. I might post a few here to discuss how I could go about mastering them. On the ipad you hold the power button and hit the home key and it takes a snapshot of the screen. Then the image appears in your photo's.

Oh, I usually only reset the % when I get a Royal Flush. Right now my counter is around 9000 hands but my percentage has fallen to 95% because at times at home I become completely distracted and miss obvious hands or swiping on the ipad I get bad holds. Of course when I start new I get a hundred or so hands in at 100% and then start obsessing about that first mistake and then whammo. What I also notice is that when it's dealing you "easy hands" keeping the percentage is quite easy. When it starts throwing you all kinds of junk my head starts to smoke. Pretty much just like in the casino.

In any event. I usually train a few hours a week and what I've noticed is that after a huge casino session I tend to make very few mistakes when I go back to the trainer. It makes sense like in any other game or sport that you need to maintain your capabilities. Guitar players practice, athletes practice and so too VP players should practice.

Roveer

[BobDancer]

Roveer, a few weeks ago you posted that you had played something like $1.4 million in coin-in in the first almost 3 months of the year.Voluntarily giving up 2% of that means $28,000. If you assume you'll play similar amounts over the rest of the year, you'll be giving up more than $100,000 to the casinos over and above their normal house hold.And you ask if it is worth trying to get better????? Most people here would work more than 40 hours a week in order to clear $100,000. It would likely take you less than 20 hours of serious study to get most of that amount.Insofar as how to do it, there are various software products and online sites that offer some help. One source that hasn't been mentioned yet are the Dancer / Daily Winner's Guides. These are 120 pages long and cover the games in great detail from beginners to advanced. In addition to learning the strategy, you're learning WHY this time you go for the straight flush and that time you hold the high cards.The Winner's Guides aren't for everybody, but if you're playing for serious money and you WANT to get better at what you're doing, it an inexpensive yet very valuable resource.from a personal point of view, whoever said they want to practice until they get to 99.95% accuracy pretty much follows the same philosophy as I do. Except:  It's more efficient to use a software product where you can choose the level of difficulty. Playing 98% on the advanced mode is approximately as valuable as playing 99.95% on the random mode. MOST hands are pretty simple. It's largely a waste of time to continually practice the hands you already know how to play. It's more valuable to concentrate on the tricky ones.Bob

[Vman96]

For what it's worth Bob, roveer meant he got 98% of all hands correct. That probably leads to a return of 99%+ compared to optimal.

But you're right, using a program forcing you to play "trickier" hands for practice will make you learn a lot faster.

[roveer]

It's more efficient to use a software product where you can choose the level of difficulty. Playing 98% on the advanced mode is approximately as valuable as playing 99.95% on the random mode. MOST hands are pretty simple. It's largely a waste of time to continually practice the hands you already know how to play. It's more valuable to concentrate on the tricky ones.Bob



This makes sense. I should concentrate at least part of the time on a "difficult level to try and burn those hard to get hands. Training on the iPad app just isn't doing it because it's playing like the real game with all the regular or easy hands thrown in. Anyone know of a vp trainer that allows you to train on "difficult" that runs on an iPad? Either that or I gotta get myself a Microsoft Surface.

Keep in mind I'm playing at 98% at home where I know I make more mistakes because of distractions.

The next question (and I think I already know the answer has to do with pay tables. Some have remarked about the lousy pay tables in AC. I've become accepting of them but at my level of play I should reconsider

It all points to not playing in ac. At least the games I like to play.

Roveer

[BillyJoe]

For what it's worth, I only have the opportunity to play on machines with paytables that Bob Dancer and others would shun. True, it is my choice to play at those locations, primarily due to the comps and benefits that I derive by being a loyal patron at those venues. I also choose to play higher volitility VP games, like TDB. I feel as though I am a decent VP player, but the thought of trying to eek out a couple % points closer to perfect play on imperfect pay tables makes little sense to me.
 
If I had reasonable choices of places and machines to play, I may feel differently. In the meantime, for me, the agenda is money management and have a good time.