CHEATING the casinos on VP

[DougJ]

There was a great article in Wired Magazine, about two guys who discovered a glitch in the coding for Video poker software on all Game King machines.

WOW.

http://www.wired.com/2014/10/cheating-video-poker

[DougJ]

Sorry guys, I guess I don't know how to post a link, but hopefully another poster here can help me and post the link to the article in the October 2014 issue of Wired.

[pokerforme]

Very cool stuff. Thanks for posting it. If they could have controlled there own greed the sky was the limit.

[Tedlark]

Doug I think this same topic was being discussed in another section of the forum. It was an interesting article to say the least. Cheating casinos by exploiting a weakness in the machine's programming.

[EDC1977]

Interesting article. I don't enjoy a machine opening a can of whoop-a$$ on me but I would never exploit a glitch either. You can read the article and draw your own conclusions. Wrong is wrong.

[Minn. Fatz]

Classic machine hacking story with a classic ending. Discoverer shares secret with friend, they fall out, they get greedy, casinos figure it out -- p.s. they are always, always watching you -- cops called. But usually the next part of the story is discoverer and pal in durance vile. These guys had some good lawyas. See keno RNG hack, OTB Pick Six past-post, blackjack teams and so many others.

Wrong may be wrong but money is money. I might feel a little bad about taking a half million off a casino rather than, say, a bank or Wall St. The casinos at least play by the rules they get to make up. But I'd get over it. I would so get over it.

Hint if you ever happen to find a similar exploit on a machine, a table game or whatever: take it easy. How fast do you really need to take a half-million that's just laying there waiting to be taken?

Here's a direct link.

[DaBurglar]

I had obviously, like everyone else, previously heard of this didactic, cautionary tale of greed and stupidity and government incompetence.   I had not, however, read of such intimate details as this article divulged, so thanks to both of you for posting it and linking it!!!There is a LOT that stays with you after reading this......first off, it really revolves around what happens when playing video poker becomes UNHEALTHY, to the point where the word addiction applies.    Both of these guys obviously were (and remain) addicts.....Kane especially, since of the two perps, he had the more accomplished life and certainly had the most dynamic set of options to choose from in terms of how to make a living.    The other guy, Nestor clearly is a Ne'er Do well who will always be living in complete poverty (I mean, come on, "CANDY CRUSH"??  That's all he can think of to do with himself after this experience?   I mean, write a book at least for crying out loud!  Speak in public about your experience, talk shows, become a gambling addiction counselor......something!!!)The obvious factor of GREED that saturates this whole story is one that we hear all the time in our exploits playing in casinos and trying to get the most out of our Video Poker playing experiences.   It is the constant source of undoing for just about everyone who runs afoul of gambling and casinos and video poker.....and when we speak of Gambling ADDICTION, I truly believe that the element of GREED is a integral part of this affliction.   When someone is NOT satisfied with playing for a set amount of time and then just accepting their results, good or bad, GREED plays a role in determining whether or not they quit when they should or press on.....whether the object of the person's greed is for money or simply the ACTION (or pleasure, or "fun") of gambling, or both, is different from person to person.....but it is still GREED.   One could argue that addiction in all forms, whether it is Booze, Drugs, Sex, Food, Shopping or whatever, is simply GREED run amok.I am glad they both chose NOT to rat on the other and essentially blew the government's case out of the water;  I think what they did was WRONG, but not to the extent they needed to be prosecuted, locked up and allowed to cost society as a whole untold Hundreds of Thousands MORE than what they already cost society.....the casinos are to blame, and the company (IGT) is to blame for not finding the BUG and allowing it to permeate in the first the place.....they should consider themselves EXTREMELY fortunate that a more sober, more moderate and far thinking person did NOT discover this bug!!!   I really do not see the need to punish these guys beyond what the IRS is doing......and even there, it is NOT fair to only go after the weakling member of the pair.....I'd love to know WHY they have not gone after Kane's money too?  Or did he actually pay taxes on his ill gotten loot?   I doubt that he did, so what's the deal there????One final note:     AR-15s!?!?!?!   Seriously?!?!   They honestly felt they needed an ENTIRE police tactical team of at least 8, fully decked out with everything to take this "video poker thief" into custody??    Did they even do a cursory pre-arrest intelligence assessment of this guy?   Aside from the fact his crime was non-violent and the article mentioned nothing about a past criminal record or history of violence (the guy in fact sounds helpless), it is often the case in white collar or financial crimes (which this really fits into) to give the suspect a chance to surrender himself.   Forgetting that, I am certain they could have gotten him by simply sending two or three officers over, MAX.  

[rascal]

Was it wrong? They didn't bring any outside devices into the casino nor did they try to somehow jimmy with the inner workings of the machines. They simply sat in their seats and pushed the buttons, all of which are freely available to be pushed by players. Do the rules specifically say you can't push the buttons in the following sequence... ? The worst I would hang them for is unjust enrichment --- taking advantage of someone else's misfortune (the bug in the program). They beat the rap because someone on the prosecution side figured out there was no case, or at the very least a case that a savvy defense attorney would quickly blow out of the water.

[DaBurglar]

Was it wrong? They didn't bring any outside devices into the casino nor did they try to somehow jimmy with the inner workings of the machines. They simply sat in their seats and pushed the buttons, all of which are freely available to be pushed by players. Do the rules specifically say you can't push the buttons in the following sequence... ? The worst I would hang them for is unjust enrichment --- taking advantage of someone else's misfortune (the bug in the program). They beat the rap because someone on the prosecution side figured out there was no case, or at the very least a case that a savvy defense attorney would quickly blow out of the water.These are good points rascal, and I totally get your point and way of thinking.    But what ultimately paints this behavior as WRONG is simply the manner of how these two guys went about pulling off this caper and the sheer SCALE/Scope of the scam.   Clearly they knew what they were doing was "wrong" (or not fair), essentially a form of cheating.   IF....and its a big IF, Kane had merely pulled off the caper a couple of times (or even a number of times) and then quietly informed the casino(s) of the problem, he probably would have been allowed to keep his money won up to that point and perhaps even hailed as a hero for saving the casino(s) a LOT of potential headaches and losses!     In fact, Kane really could have turned this thing around and taken advantage of this glitch in a WHOLE different manner:   He could have set himself up as a "hero", if he had thought about it or been so inclined.....but he was not so inclined.  He was a Greedy gambling addict, and proceeded accordingly.His phone call to Nestor after being arrested telling Nestor to "Stay Away" from the casinos, clearly indicates he knows he has done something naughty.   And Nestor, for his part, shows himself to be just as greedy and addicted, by convincing himself that Kane was trying to deny him the "fruits" of the discovery, instead of simply warning a friend and trying to save him from the same fate.   Nestor, being the hapless derelict idiot that he is/was, essentially ignored this blessing and instead turned it into a curse!   He could have EASILY verified on his own whether or not Kane was telling the truth about being "busted"!!!!     That just shows how STUPID and simple Nestor really is/was!!    Nestor would have in all probability never been caught or discovered by the IRS, and could have kept what he had won up to that moment,  IF and only IF he could have found it within himself to believe his "friend" and heeded the warning......but being a degenerate gambling addict himself and being unable to even conceive of anyone (including himself) actually doing a good deed or acting in another person's best interest, he ignored the warning.There are so many "what ifs?"  in this tale.....and again, on one hand we can lament that Kane and Nestor were unable to "play it cool" and slowwwwwwly and quietly keep the scheme going and under the Radar by not over-doing it, and on the other hand we can wonder just HOW something of this magnitude was "missed" for so long by the most stringent and strident Gaming regulatory authority and enforcement agency in the world ( Nevada Gaming), not to mention the manufacturer (IGT) of much of the gaming machines used today.....!!!!Again, the casinos of the North American Continent (and elsewhere) are soooo lucky someone more level-headed, less greedy, and with a mild disdain for the avarice symbolized by these gargantuan Casino Corporations did not discover this glitch instead of these two train wrecks.   If that had happened, we could have been looking at a WHOLE lot more casinos going under around the country instead of just in AC!!!!      Think about it......!!!!one last point:Anyone curious as to WHY they never actually print or describe just what EXACTLY the "sequence" of buttons is to make this glitch come to life???    could it be that there are still machines out there which have not been "patched" up with the fix??????

[rascal]

Ansolutely. The right person with a level head and a well-planned game plan could have made a lot of money over a long period of time and never raised the first suspicion. Greed kills all golden gooses.