It really is this simple.....

[DaBurglar]

We regularly discuss the integrity of casinos and their games, specifically video poker games.......some of us feel that casinos are such a highly regulated industry (that's the belief, and that is the perception......whether it TRULY is a reality or just dogma is another story......and certainly, with casinos proliferating all around the world and within the USA, there is the possibility of some markets and locations being extremely regulated and others not so much.)Some of us (like me) believe the regulations and intentions are there to keep gaming companies totally legit and honest, but we still allow for the possibility to have some casinos setting (or operating) their Video Poker games in such a way that the actual hand results are NOT what we expect or believe should be happening (i.e.  the hands are NOT completely and totally and independently RANDOM each and every time the deal/draw button is hit.)  Some of us believe that there is, or could be, some machines in some casinos that actually will deal MORE dud hands than should happen within expected statistical distributions, and that this is INTENTIONAL.So here is the simple acid test:   I personally have asked numerous times in almost every AC casino (both defunct and still operating) to show, or PROVE, to me that any given VP machine which I choose to select is in fact EXACTLY like it should be in terms of randomness and expected (fair) results.   I've also asked MANY MANY times at the gaming office (located on TENNESSEE avenue) the specifics on just HOW this is all verified and maintained.   I have also asked numerous times in the casinos just HOW the process works for "audits" of fairness/randomness, what is the frequency, etc.I have NEVER received anything that could be considered absolute, concrete proof one way or the other......Only peoples' words, opinions or assurances.     Now, that's fine, it is entirely possible I have been told the truth and NEVER been lied to or buffaloed, or told something by someone who truly is knowledgeable and authorized to make such assurances or claims of integrity.....but that is ALL I receive.The common assurance, that the "CERTIFICATION" takes place at the vendor and that the casino's responsibility ends one they get that piece of paper saying "this machine is ok", etc., is pretty flimsy.   There really, truly should be something that is very easy, accessible and understandable for players to see that tells us any given machine is on the up and up.   Not a faded sticker, or some annoyed, curt response from some guy in a suit that is vague and meaningless.    If the integrity of the games IS in fact, such a CERTAINTY, then it really should be easy to see and display and PROVE.That's how I see it.......

[alpax]

I believe if they say the RNG chip is as sophisticated as slot machines (where it generates thousands of numbers per second until the button is stopped). The RNG is isolated and will not know what the game the user is playing, as Aces have more value in Bonus Poker games and Deuces have more value in Deuces Wild game.

A simple test scenario will be,

There are 2598960 possible ways to draw 5 cards from a standard 52 card deck. Lets have 1000 people hit the draw button, or one person draw 1000 hands during a session. There is a high chance in theory that 82% of the time each one of the 1000 draws will be unqiue. We can execute this trial 100 times, and if around 82 times no two alike hands were drawn, I would say it is random. It would take a lot of record keeping by hand, and a lot of people playing it, but that is a good way in my opinion to ensure randomness.

Had to use a computer to get this value as it is difficult to use a standard calcuator

nPr(2598960, 1000) / 2598960 ^ 1000 = 0.82512787568615431

I have started playing VP last April, played about 60,000 hands, I have yet to hit a Royal Flush myself so I am frustrated too.

[olds442jetaway]

The Royal will come when you least expect it. Like last night for me when my 600k Royalless streak was broken. I threw away a dud hand and the draw produced all of the needed clubs. Unfortunately, since I am playing single coin job so far for 2015, I only got 62.50. There is no way I am going to repeat last year's results chasing the Royal and other premium hands. Good luck to others who can do this and be successful. Finally, I find it very odd that these over 100 percent returns on single coin job play are all coming very late at night through early AM. That suits me since that is pretty much the only time I can play with the committments I have at home.

[Tedlark]

  DaBurglar I will be better able to provide a longer response to your post once I get my Enigma decoder out of storage.    I can, in the present, say that I disagree with you when you say that a casino's responsibility ends once "they get that piece of paper saying "this machine is o.k. etc."   Alpax - don't give up hope just yet. Just because the general rule of thumb is that a royal should hit once every 40,000 hands doesn't mean it will. As you see from olds; he has gone much longer than 60,000 hands without catching a royal. Good luck to you with your play. 

[mammajamma]

How does the 2nd spin of the RNG remove the cards that have been dealt first?

[shadowman]

How does the 2nd spin of the RNG remove the cards that have been dealt first?



It probably doesn't. It just ignores duplicates. At least that is how I did it when I wrote my own program.

[shadowman]

alpax ... you will hear lots of stories. The variety should give you some confidence the machines are random. In my case I went over 500K hands with only 2 royals. Since then I've had 5 in the my last 100K hands.

[alpax]

Much appreciated for the heads up shadowman and ted, I read up a lot about Jacks or Better on the top gambling websites prior to starting, so I had an idea that it will be gradual losses over time and the RF will give you most of your money back. The best part about it is that it can raise your casino club levels more efficiency (in terms of bankroll loss and management).

Most of my losses this year came from picking up Deuces Wild which is more like you freefall and the Quad Deuces picks you back up only for the cycle to repeat itself frequently.

[DaBurglar]

wow......that's it?    no one has anything else to say?You all have heard of CAR FAX.com right?  if you want to know a vehicles history (to make sure you are not being screwed) you can access it and see, very easy, clean, accessible.Its the same in many other industries with whatever product  or service is the issue....there is a simple resource or location or application that provides assurance and guaranty that YOU are getting what you should be getting.WHY...O' WHy does the casino/gaming industry NOT have something like this, IF it is such a certainty that all these games we are playing are indeed fair?  And I am sorry, but IGT customer service is not enough....

[ko king]

alpax ... you will hear lots of stories. The variety should give you some confidence the machines are random. In my case I went over 500K hands with only 2 royals. Since then I've had 5 in the my last 100K hands.

Considering a royal should occur on average every 40K hands it looks like you're still well behind. You're coming up on 650K hands was one of those royals dealt?