Spending Money versus Losing Money Playing VP

[OTABILL]

Like most everybody, my wife and I budget discretionary funds for entertainment, How we spend these funds depends on what we like to do. Following up on threads in the Video Poker Strategy Topic, I can't recall a "winning" year playing VP. Then again, monetarily, we have not come out ahead going to a concert/play, attending a sports event, having a gourmet meal or participating in any other avocation. The wallet is always lighter in all cases with one exception, a good night at the casino. Philosophically, I view a visit to a casino playing VP (or bingo which we also emjoy) successful if we have a good time, especially if our "losses" are minimal or are actually paid for our time there. We play the games we like on the machines we like, not necessarily those with the best paytable. We don't keep statistics, other than how much money spent. When the funds are not available, we stay home. That's why I consider us recreational players.   Other folks here keep track of statistics; play only VP variations with the best EV; devise strategies, go after comps, etc. Whatever floats your boat. There is a difference between the concept of spending versus losing money. You may not agree, but let's respect this (an everyone's) view on recreational play.

[notes1]

otabill, could not agree more with your post. earlier, i mentioned how some spend  what i would call excessive amounts on everything from cars, clothing, meals, etc. i do not recall anyone who bought season tickets to their favorite sports team as ' losing money'. they got something in return for what they spent.  like it or not, all of us must accept that things have changed since the economic disaster that started in 2008. casinos have changed, the world has changed. it is like complaining about airport security, since 2001.   i think the best we can do to help ourselves is reward those casinos that offer us the best overall value for our entertainment dollar. if we feel someplaces are ripping us off, avoid those locations.

[OTABILL]

otabill, could not agree more with your post. earlier, i mentioned how some spend  what i would call excessive amounts on everything from cars, clothing, meals, etc. i do not recall anyone who bought season tickets to their favorite sports team as ' losing money'. they got something in return for what they spent.  like it or not, all of us must accept that things have changed since the economic disaster that started in 2008. casinos have changed, the world has changed. it is like complaining about airport security, since 2001.   i think the best we can do to help ourselves is reward those casinos that offer us the best overall value for our entertainment dollar. if we feel someplaces are ripping us off, avoid those locations.

[OTABILL]

Notes: I saw your post and my mentioning of the threads in the Video Poker Strategy was in essence a response to your post and to a discussion I had years ago with Frank Kneeland on this subject.

Things have changed. I don't think anything illicit has been done though, with regards to progressives, the meters are slower. I attribute our results in recent years to bad luck.

[alpax]

Even though I have been playing VP for a much shorter period than many here, I view the current situation like as if it is nothing more than the consumer market.

A wise consumer would prefer to buy the same good/service from a store that charges less than another place (paytables). If there is an occasional sale, it will be an appealing factor (promotions). If the place offers good coupons (bounceback mail offers), even better to lower the overall cost.

It took me a while to accept that casino gambling is entertainment entity based on the bankroll swings the various games go through. I play full pay jacks or better during a weekday promo (double bounceback free play) so that I can play as much as possible for the bankroll I have. I find it awkward that most non-gamblers I personally know despise and are judgemental towards casinos since they have "the edge on every game they offer". They do not regard the offers/perks from casino clubs though it may not cover all the losses.

As for sports, being a big sports fan myself, I can say not even the recession in 2008 can slow it down. Though I know the point of the topic of discussion, these huge cable/satellite TV deals that sports teams are negotiating to finance new stadium venues financing and inflating athelete's salaries. The cost of that is offloaded through the consumers through higher ticket prices, higher cost in merchandise, and higher TV subscription fees to watch the teams. The cost of entertainment is going up every where so it is not limited to just VP.

[DaBurglar]

This is a great thread and complements the one I started in Video Poker Strategy about "winning and losing" where we attempted to "POLL" people to simply express what their results have been the last 5 years and what they "THINK or PERCEIVE" is going on in the casinos they play Video Poker.OTABILL you very nicely summed up your own viewpoint and also shared that you too are experiencing overall LOSSES and a perception that Video Poker today is a lot harder to have a profitable session with.......I also liked the replies from NOTES1 and ALPAX.Indeed, casino gambling as a form of entertainment and as part of a voerall "VACATION" or getaway, is in many ways superior to other types of getaways/entertainment like concerts, camping, or traveling because quite simply, it is at least STILL possible to recoup at least a little of the money you spend on the experience......in other words, at the end of a Elton John Concert, the stage does not shower the audience with 100 dollar bills!But what OTABILL is saying, as are MOST forum members, is that TODAY, it is less and less common (and in less amounts) that Casino patrons are "recouping" some of the money they spend on this form of ENTERTAINMENT, such that trips to our favorite casino "DESTINATIONS" are becoming more and more similar to these other forms of entertainment and vacations/getaways!And yes, the casinos are not doing anything "ILLEGAL", but clearly the games today are different in what they spit out for hand results (faster and more RANDOM RNGs that somehow make it much harder to get on "HOT STREAKS" I guess.....???)

[FloridaPhil]

I totally agree.  I've had hobbies in my life that would make the cost of playing video poker look like peanuts.  At this stage of our life, traveling around the country on casino road trips, staying in great resorts and playing video poker is more fun than any other thing we could do. What matters most is not how much you spend, lose or win, it's whether or not you are getting your money's worth. P.S. Disney World just raised the price of their tickets to $105 per person and they won't let you win any of it back...

[Carcounter]

I know that plenty of people do get good value out of their VP play. Florida Phil, you are exhibit #1. Since my wife can't stand casinos, I am on my own and can't take advantage of the free rooms and many of the perks. However, as long as there are 99.5% games available at my favorite casino which is an hour away, I get my value. With cash back and comp dollars, I'm close to and sometimes over a 100% theo. my business associates like the occasional dinner at Old Homestead and access to the Amphora Lounge at Borgota, so I'm fine with what I,m doing.

[FloridaPhil]

Sure.  Video Poker is great because you can chose the amount of admission and you have a chance of getting your money back.  I don't know of any other leisure activity that offers those options.  

[DaBurglar]

I only have an issue with the concept of "getting your money's worth..."  This obviously is DIFFERENT for each and every person or player, because it is entirely subjectiveand hinges on each person's opinion and PERCEPTION!But the concept is also central to evaluatiing the merits of VP as a pastime or hobby.....when I was griping about how poorly I kept doing in AC casinos I was speaking with this very concept in mind......I was clearly NOT getting my money's worth for a long time in AC casinos, and this was troublesome.   It stood in stark contrast to all my previous years of experience with video poker in Vegas and Reno where i generally DID get my money's worth.......please note, I am not saying I WON or made a profit all the time in Nevada during the years 1993 thru 2009, but I definitely did have some profitable years and stretches of time, but not much since 2009 when I began playing in AC 90% of the time.That's really been my gripe with AC all along, it offers very little VALUE overall in terms of VP play, except perhaps at  Borgata!