The Jacks or Better Blues...

[FloridaPhil]

Over the years I have had a real love/hate relationship with Jacks.  Some of my biggest wins have been when playing Jacks.  I love the low variance even with the crappy quarter 8/5 games we have in Florida. This got me thinking, Why is Jacks so boring?  It's boring because the only exciting jackpot is a royal flush and waiting for a quad that only pays 125 coins is a real bummer.   Also, it seems every time I switch to Jacks I hit 4 aces with a kicker or a brace of quad deuces.  Sometimes I think I should be playing Jacks all the time, but then I wake up and make some coffee. 

[FAA]

Even I tire of it on a losing day. Saturday's five quad session had me raring to return. The 9/6 Progressive total at my casino is always a fun incentive, usually an extra $20-$200. But, losing $67 in two hours yesterday was horrible. I got my $25 FP to $24, a massive struggle in itself. Then I lost that and $43 more. As Jeter said elsewhere, the turnover this time of year is considerably slowed down. Outside LV, almost any casino will likely pull the payout plug in the off season. Rather than lose $30 an hour, I would rather spend an hour on a $5 craps table and limit my JOB exposure until June. I couldn't wait to get the hell out of town.

[wildman49]

I have to agree 100% Jacks or Better is boring but I plug in my earbuds play some music and play away. Music takes some of the boredom away and I am one that moves after the 4ok hits. Also been changing out the screen on a 3ok to play 2 hands of BDLX poker then back to Jacks on a losing hand puts some fun in the game.

[EDC1977]

@Phil: I played some 3-play JoB with the Missus this morning. Drew quad 3's w/kicker for 125 coins. Whaddya gonna do? That's the game of choice but I played a long time on a measly bankroll.

[Mr.Dawes]

I was thinking of starting a JoB thread Phil. Interesting reading everyone's thoughts. I spent the last 2 years playing mostly DDB with a little Airport Deuces mixed in. The IP added 9/6 Jacks recently and I have the game down pretty well thanks to VPW software.Saturday I played about 1,200 hands at the IP, hit 5 sets of quads and walked away dead even. I was never more than $60 up or $30 down. In a way this is very peaceful compared to DDB but if I am hitting quads at that pace in DDB I expect to be around $200 ahead. I have also played about 6,000 hands on VPW and I am almost even on that.It seems that JoB really requires the player to have different expectations. My goal became trying to get as many points on my card as possible without losing any money instead of trying to walk away with a big win. I did some calculations to determine what it would take to move up to the next card level at the IP. I would need to play 160,000 hands (.25 max coin) to move up. I ran the VPW bankroll calculator simulation for 160,000 hands and if I start with a $3,000 bankroll I would have about a 27% risk of ruin. I might give this a try, although I might have to use Wildman's earbud tip.FAA, I am curious, is that $67 loss larger than normal for your JoB play? Do you play max coin? With DDB a $67 loss can and does happen in 20 minutes relatively frequently. 

[FloridaPhil]

If a player had enough patience and could play 9/6 jacks all the time, I have no doubt he/she could play pretty close to even long term.   That would be a pretty boring prospect as far as I'm concerned.  Like the man said "Whatever floats your boat".  My wife played 8/5 jacks for years and she didn't do all that badly.  She finally succumbed to the deuces wild bug and never went back.  You can lose some money playing jacks, but the two pair double pay keeps you in the game longer.  I hit 4 single line royals in one 24 hour period playing jacks back in 2008.  Those were the days...

[alpax]

The IP added 9/6 Jacks recently and I have the game down pretty well thanks to VPW software.Saturday I played about 1,200 hands at the IP, hit 5 sets of quads and walked away dead even. I was never more than $60 up or $30 down. In a way this is very peaceful compared to DDB but if I am hitting quads at that pace in DDB I expect to be around $200 ahead. I have also played about 6,000 hands on VPW and I am almost even on that.It seems that JoB really requires the player to have different expectations. My goal became trying to get as many points on my card as possible without losing any money instead of trying to walk away with a big win. I did some calculations to determine what it would take to move up to the next card level at the IP. I would need to play 160,000 hands (.25 max coin) to move up. I ran the VPW bankroll calculator simulation for 160,000 hands and if I start with a $3,000 bankroll I would have about a 27% risk of ruin.


I play Jacks or Better for about the same reasons as well, to advance in the casino club's tier membership program with the minimal bankroll requirements as possible. I am not going to defend against the people who say it is a boring game.

I wanted to give you a more realistic perspective on the bankroll requirements. You have plotted the long term perspective of what is needed to get into Sapphire tier at the IP. Realistically it is not possible to play 160,000 rounds in a single day or a visit. Also you do not need to have $3000 bankroll on you, you can accumulate it over time from income sources. I do not know how often you are able to make visits to this casino, but the bankroll you need is just enough to play out a portion of the 160k hands. Also you have to look at what the casino gives you in the mail, the free play amount can be added to your bankroll, but at the same time you have to add more hands to your simulation. For example, if you get $50 in free play, you have to add $50 to your bankroll, but add 40 hands to the play since you have to play it through once. If it is a monthly offer, for a year's span you can add $600 to the bankroll but add 480 more hands you would have to play.

The Boyd Gaming's BConnected casino club program is a nationwide one accepted at 17+ properties or so. I do not know how many points you need to reach Sapphire tier in Biloxi, but there is a special rate of $30 coin in per tier point. In Vegas properties, you need 25,000 points over a rolling 12 month period (6 months if you are a Vegas local) for Sapphire tier membership, plus it is $1 coin in per tier point for just about all their Video Poker.

I just think it is really worth it to make a trip to Vegas to help you advance as much as possible; it will be much more cost effective than what you have plotted out. The Gold Coast Casino in Vegas has Jacks or Better and Airport Deuces at various denominations: 25¢, 50¢, $1, $2, $5. In addition, if you want to play full pay Bonus Deluxe (9/6 has the same strategy as 8/6) for quarters, a shuttle to the Orleans is available, still $1 coin in per tier point.

A $2000 bankroll has about a 1% risk of ruin to play 5000 rounds of $1 denomination Jacks or Better. That is what I did and will continue to do to retain Sapphire tier membership. I believe once you are Sapphire in Vegas, you are Sapphire at IP and in other Boyd properties across the nation.

[onemoretry]

If you could find a 5, 10, or more multiline JOB game you would find it a lot less boring.

[Mr.Dawes]

   I do not know how many points you need to reach Sapphire tier in Biloxi, but there is a special rate of $30 coin in per tier point. In Vegas properties, you need 25,000 points over a rolling 12 month period (6 months if you are a Vegas local) for Sapphire tier membership, plus it is $1 coin in per tier point for just about all their Video Poker.It is my understanding that the IP in Biloxi requires $2 coin in to earn 1 tier point on VP and you reach Sapphire status with 100,000 points. Thus $200,000 coin in divided by $1.25 equals 160,000 hands. I am able to make about 2 day trips per month and I am thinking about 8000 hands per trip. As for Vegas, I just don't see it happening anytime soon. Work right now requires Monday thru Friday every week and flying out Saturday morning and back on Sunday does not appeal to me.As always Alpax, thanks for the feedback.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=alpax]A $2000 bankroll has about a 1% risk of ruin to play 5000 rounds of $1 denomination Jacks or Better.[/quote]Before the financial crisis, I played $1 and $2 Jacks exclusively.  Granted I wasn't able to play 9/6 all the time, but I tried to.  It was no big deal to lose $2,000 in a day and in fact it happened more often than you think.  Don't get the idea that you can't lose money playing Jacks, because you can. Ask Bob Dancer...