CS Revisited

[FloridaPhil]

Why are you playing video poker?  The answer to this question should be the motivation for how you play.   Playing video poker as cheap enjoyable recreation is the primary goal of CS.CS stands for "Cheap Strategy".  I developed CS because I wanted to play lots of video poker, but couldn't psychologically stomach the large financial swings of the game.  Most video poker games are negative, which means they have a built in house edge.  Video poker requires making a lot of bets in a small period of time.   To obtain the best odds in today's VP world, you normally need to play at the dollar level or higher.  Playing max coins at the dollar level means you are wagering a minimum of $2,500 an hour.   It is entirely within the realm of possibility to lose tens of thousands of dollars or more per year playing video poker.   To the average recreational player with a family or for seniors in retirement, this is not an option or a wise financial decision.  To those who are financially able, the depression of frequently walking out broke kills all the enjoyment they derive from playing the game.CS is primarily a single coin quarter strategy.  Playing single coin quarters increases the house edge, but reduces the overall cost of playing negative expectation games.  The biggest problem most players have with playing single coin is the lack of a max coin jackpot.   Hitting a natural royal flush is the most exciting experience in video poker.  CS restores that possibility while removing much of the risk.  If you can afford to play max coins and the added excitement is worth it to you, by all means do so.  If playing max coins means you are causing yourself financial or psychological harm, there is another option.I played using the CS strategy for over two years.  It was the one and only time I made a profit playing video poker.  My profit came because I reduced my average bet to a bare minimum and was lucky enough to hit more than my share of max coin CS jackpots.  My CS profit was admittedly small, but it did allow me to play for as long as I wanted without the huge financial swings of playing max coins.  At one time, I had a small website explaining CS.   I received numerous encouraging emails and posts thanking me for this strategy.   A few high profile players severely criticized me for putting CS on this forum and I took it down.  I now regret that decision.  CS clearly has value as recreation.  We have been given the opportunity of a separate Recreational Forum on this website.  If anyone is interested in CS or has any questions, I will consider reposting it.   Most players who are critical of CS have never tried it for any extended length of time.   To gain the benefits of CS, you must commit to it totally.   Switching to CS after you have built up a big max coin loss is a disaster in the making which I guarantee will ruin your day.  If you would like to go to the casino, play as much video poker as you want without the stress of losing a lot of money and still have a chance at a max coin jackpot, CS may be for you.If you are one of the CS or FP haters, I respect your opinion. but  hope you will allow us to openly discuss this subject without any additional drama.

[FAA]

I only wish I one coined it more often. I probably get burned for about $20 per hit quad because my CS bet is two or even three coins. Assuming a quad per $400 coin in has lately been a safe bet for me. If I knock that down to $250 to approximate the same amount of CS hands, I should do well to max thereafter.

[FloridaPhil]

On our road trips, I would normally use a 1000 coin per day CS bankroll ($250).  I would play solid from 5 AM until 6 PM at night taking breakfast and lunch breaks along with trips to the potty.  Very rarely would I bust.  In Black Hawk two years ago, betting single quarter CS I turned two bits into $1,000 (max coin royal directly after a 4 coin win).  I sat there and watched that royal happen.  When you're playing CS quarters all the time, a $1,000 hit goes a very long way.   So far this year playing max coin 50 cents I am down $2K.   I know the risk and am OK with it even it turns out to be just another learning experience.  If you want to be guaranteed a max coin royal, you have no other choice.

[jetermacaw]

"If you are one of the CS or FP haters, I respect your opinion. but hope you will allow us to openly discuss this subject without any additional drama."

You can openly discuss as much as you want, but I personally think CS is completely asinine I try to read every post by every poster, but its getting to the point where with certain posters you know what there going to say and it just gets ponderous. Plus every time I see someone playing short coin on a QQ or Super Triple Play machine I think of FP. YUK.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=jetermacaw]You can openly discuss as much as you want, but I personally think CS is completely assine.[/quote]You are entitled to your opinion. For me it's about the net win vs. loss and I personally did much better in the past with CS.  I'm playing max coins now.  We'll see what happens at the end of this year.OK, let's assume you are right.  How do you explain this?Let's suppose you go to the Beau Rivage for a week.  You play 5,000 hands of max coin quarter deuces wild each day for 5 days in a row, that's 25,000 hands for a total cash in of $31,250.  The quarter max coin single line deuces wild odds at the Beau are 97.5%.  With perfect play factoring in the royal flush bonus you can expect to lose an average minimum of $781.  If you don't hit approximately 5 quad deuces or a royal, you could lose much more. If you played single coin the odds are reduced to 96.38%, but your cash in drops to $6,250.  With perfect play your theoretical loss drops to $226.  The max coin bump after every 4 coin win happens about 8% of the time.  It's practically revenue neutral as it often recovers your losses.  If even one of your quad deuces or royals hit at max coin, you come close to making a profit.  Think about this and you might change your mind.

[FAA]

Like the man says, it is a losing proposition to begin with, even at my benign -0.46%. Objectively, it makes sense to save my ammo for concerted strikes. I do get penalized by the odious CET comp system. But for the best odds, I will grudgingly accept this.

[olds442jetaway]

I still think CS has its place especially if one starts with a number that pays the correct amount for the Royal. In that case, CS works as well as any other perfect strategy play if one is sticking to the rules and playing 99% or better games. Personally, once in awhile, I play CS starting with 5 quarters on Airport Deuces and on a nice hit of 4 or more play max 25 quarters. Your percentage return long term would be the same. All the math rules are followed in this scenario.

[FAA]

I really should be much more diligent with CS. After an hour of it with no quad, a likely scenario, my loss would be trifling! My mental state would be serene. Then, I can comfortably pursue the quad at max for a bit. The cold cycle's demise is likely imminent at this juncture.

[case]

FAA
I recall you recently hit a royal playing max coins. If you hit that on one coin, how would of you felt?

[case]

Phil

You said..... " To obtain the best odds in today's VP world, you normally need to play at the dollar level or higher"

I have heard you say this more than once but I don't agree. I have found (in Vegas) many of the full pay machines are at the quarter level. AT some casinos like Bolder Station they even have full pay at nickle, dime, quarter and fifty cent.

Casinos that offer full pay at lower denominations keep the Bob Dancers of the world away as they won't play those games because the return per hour is not high enough. Also casinos use the cheaper full pay machines as a come-on and won't lose as much money on them. This has been my experience anyway.

Those that play high denominations are often playing below 100% on the pay tables but when they add the "extras it brings them over 100%.

I have no problem with anyone playing CS. It is a great way to play for entertainment.