Speaking of Royals

[ko king]

I'm sure some people have caught a few post by myself concerning a casino that I spent around 20 years playing and I couldn't hit the royal for 10 of those years. When I say I couldn't hit the royal that's not quite the truth, I did hit 1 in 10 years of play and I did see 1 other person hit one also during those 10 years. Now I used to hit the royal on a normal cycle for my first 10 years of play and I saw others hit hem all the time also. When the casino was bought by new owners all the vp were taken out and replaced, the new machines just wouldn't deliver royals. Anyway I was playing vp at a casino I hadn't spent much time playing at and a guy came and sat down right beside me. After a few seconds the guy asked if I remembered him, it didn't take long for me to recognize who he was. I remembered his name which was Bob, many of the other players including myself referred to him as Bigtime Bob because he used to play the $5 and $2 vp denomination like he had all the money in the world. I told Bob that I remembered a time I walked into the high limit room at that casino (I won't name) and he had 5 of the 7 vp machines locked up with jackpots waiting to be paid, 2-$20K royals, 1-$20K aces w/kicker and the other 2 machines were $10K hits, he loved to play TDB. Bob said he didn't really recall that night in particular because he had several nights like that at that casino because he played all his vp there. He told me about one night at that casino when he hit 3 royals in less than an hour of play, two on he same machine, that night he said he 19 hand pays.
     So here's where I'm going with my story. I ask Bob what happened to him because I had lost track of him years ago. His story was identical to mine, he said he used to hit about 25 royals a year playing at that casino, give or take a few. When the casino was bought and the new machines came in he said he couldn't buy a royal, in 3 hard years of play he only hit 1, he added he didn't change a thing, played like he always did but the machines just didn't give up the royals like they had for about 10 years running prior to the new owners and new machines. Nothing really happened to Bob he just quit playing at that casino like so many others. Me and Bob went back to playing, both of us hit our share of quads, nothing great but enough to keep us playing, after a little over an hour Bob hit a decent hand. I congratulated Bob and he added that he had hit a royal there the prior night for $20K, looks like things are back to normal for Bigtime Bob. Bob shook my hand and said it was good to me and said he was going to play some $5 slots, I played maybe another 30 minutes and decided to call it a night but I went to check how Bob was doing on the slots, nothing special. Really enjoyed talking to Bob and hearing him echo my experience at that casino. Neither of us can see if anything has changed at that casino as it's no longer open.

[FAA]

Great anecdote. Paul Harvey would have enjoyed shaping the details.

[billryan]

I don't understand people's reluctance to name casinos.
To me, your story is greatly lessened by failing to name the casino, especially as it is closed.

[ko king]

I don't understand people's reluctance to name casinos.
To me, your story is greatly lessened by failing to name the casino, especially as it is closed.


Well I'm sorry to hear that, not sure what I have to gain by making up a story, especially since I didn't name a casino and it's closed.

[DaBurglar]

Ok well I am not going to bother trying to fruitlessly discuss whether or not KO KING's story is any more or less valid (or true) by his inclusion or exclusion of certain details, mainly because I "GET" what his true theme (or point) actually is.......although let me just tell you Ko King, I too would greatly like to know which casino you are talking about, lol!What Ko King is highlighting is really what has been disucussed, debated.....and then debated some more, on this forum, and elsewhere, for the last decade and change......specifically, the nature, progression and composition of actual VIDEO POKER Play and the ensuing "RESULTS" for all of us players has changed in a very profound and negative way since around 2005 or thereabouts........it really has, and the failure on the part of certain players to acknowledge this is baffling.    One of the primary ways Video Poker has changed in the last 10-15 years is the reduction in the frequency of the all-important Royal Flush.   Ko King makes this the central aspect of his story, but obviously there is also more to it than just a drastic reduction in the number and frequency of Royal flushes in the course of all of his video poker playing;    There is also a apparent reduction in ALL types of winning hand combinations, which of course means that the really important winning hands like premium Quads and regular quads STICK OUT by means of their absence (along with the previously mentioned Lack of Royals.)Even though there are still some hard headed believers out there who insist that the Video Poker GAMES of TODAY (The year of our Lord 2016)   are absolutely NO DIFFERENT in terms of their quality, odds or frequency of hits than the games of Yesteryear (say, prior to the year of our Lord 2003/2004-ish), I am going to proceed with the conclusion and under the educated assumption that today's games and machines ARE NOT the same.    Furthermore, I will acknowledge that some..... SOME of the differences in terms of the lack of premium hits and results with Today's games can be explained PARTIALLY by the following:      (1) Significant reduction in Paytables;  (2)  Significant reduction, and scaling back, and judicious distribution of "comps", "perks", "Bonuses", "rewards", etc by today's Casinos  is far FAR less generous than what previously was the norm prior to the turn of the century (year of our lord 2000.)   The reasons for this are too many to list or discuss, but no one can deny today's casinos are far more "stingy" and careful about what they give back to, or give away to, players like us!   (3)  The entire composition and nature of the casino industry has changed in the last 10-15 years in such a manner that does NOT benefit or help players, and obviously this spills into the specific arena of Video Poker and impacts negatively what we get in return for our play..... over-saturation, and the fact that most casinos today are part of LARGE corporate, publicly held business concerns which MUST put shareholder interests (as well as executive employee "interests") ABOVE every other consideration.......!    Nonetheless, despite acknowledging these obvious aspects of today's video poker climate, it is the conclusive belief of players like myself, and especially KO KING with this thread, that the video poker of the past 1-1/2 decades now  does not allow as much or as many winning hands/sessions/results, by way of reduced frequency of premium hands (or similarly, and INCREASED FREQUENCY in Garbage, non-paying, DUD hands!)      The real question(s) now are WHY this is happening (beyond the systemic reasons I just outlined a few sentences ago), and more importantly and specifically HOW this is happening within today's casinos and within today's Video Games/Machines.I will conclude this initial post in this large-scope thread/discussion with this point:To answer the HOW / Why aspect, I submit today's computer programs & game results generators  are inherently different from those of the past, in the sheer speed and capacity to spew out truly randomized  results, and this difference, as well as the sheer versatility, robustness and sophistication of today's programming utilities (and languages) combined with the increase in many end-user defined utilities and operating menus, allows the casinos of today to nuance and tweak their actual results in such a manner to adjust long term results more decidedly in the casinos' favor without automatically violating every principle, rule or regulation they are held to (or, more realistically, without violating such rules/regs in a totally OBVIOUS and easy to prove fashion, which means, with the right  subterfuge and practices, they can get away with it...)    Directly tied to this is also the feature of TODAY's Business and Political/Legal environment, whereby the oversight and regulation of today's casinos is done by government and regulatory entities whose interests and motives are frequently compromised or at odds with what is "right or fair", and simply put, today's HUMAN component to this whole equation is compromised by the lack of morality and fixed standards of "right & Wrong" that previously used to guide all of us......the political influence that obviously exists and drives the relationship between casinos, government and society TODAY was not nearly as dynamic, prolific or strong as it was in or before the year of our lord 2000;   The link between taxes, state spending budgets, political influence and CASINOS is extensive today.

[ko king]

I have no interest in the possible problems using a name of a casino or any business in a negative way can bring. I created this thread because I've made post in he past that go way back concerning this subject and the casino. Most vp players are funny, they won't discuss their actual results in public, most people will say " oh I'm about even". Me, well I'm not ashamed to say, I have only finished ahead 2 of the 20+ years I have played the game and neither year was a big win. Now up until about 2007 I played at or close to the expected return for the game I played. I even survived at the casino I couldn't hit the royal at because I would hit the quads so well and had my share of pretty big slot wins, one was a progressive win. I got to the point though that I wouldn't touch a slot in that casino, the slot machines went silent and the crowds thinned. The vp at that casino was the same way only difference was it happened later, all the quality quads I had survived on for years became few and far between, must have been the same for other players because it got to the point I would find myself being the only one playing the machines. Now this was a casino that was packed with slot and vp players despite the fact that more competition existed than present day. I almost understand the problems many of these casinos in this area face. I'll throw a couple of numbers at you. In the last quarter of 2007 our area casino had over 4 million visitors, the last report I saw was in 2014, in the last quarter of 2014 our local casinos had about 1.4 million visitors. No matter how you cut it 3 million less customers for a quarter is quite a drop off, did 3 million people quit visiting because they were having a good time, that doesn't make much sense, things got tight and the value wasn't there. Look it's common sense to me, if I run and own a steak house and I offer the best cuts of meat available, have the best cooks and service people will come, word will get out. Now when I get the customers and the place is packed every night I can keep providing all the things that made my place a great steak house or I could get a little lazy, maybe take my customers for granted. When I start to notice a drop in my customer base I could get a little nervous and start to cut corners, buy cheaper meat and get less expensive cooks, maybe even let some of the other help go. Next thing you know I'm struggling just to keep the doors open, I could blame it on the customers I once had or I could take responsibility and go back to what my steak house great in the first place, after all, plenty of folks still enjoy steaks. That's the way I look at the majority of casinos in my area, they once provided great gaming and the players came, they cut corners and cost and the players disappeared. This isn't brain surgery, the players are still around they're just not going to pay premium prices for below average products.

[billryan]

In the casinos I go to, which are mostly in Nevada, there are more video poker machines today than there were fifteen years ago. They aren't as good, but they are more plentiful.
I have to ask- what do you think would come from naming a casino, any casino especially, in a negative light.
Watch closely- Harrah's sucks, particularly Harrah's Laughlin.
I'm still here. No sudden lightning bolt struck me down.
No lawyer knocked on my door.
2007 was the start of the Great Recession. Many areas have yet to fully recover. Will you at least share what part of the country you are in?
You are also looking at the figures the wrong way. It didn't go from four million people to 1.3, it went from four million assets thru the door. If ten thousand regulars stopped going because of the economy, that could be a drop of 750,000 asses in a seat that quarter.
Between expanded competition and the economic slowdown, few casinos are doing 2007 numbers.
Vegas gets more visitors each year, but the dollars they gamble are getting lower each year.

[onemoretry]

Harrah's sucks, particularly Harrah's Laughlin.

What's the problem with Harrah's Laughlin?

[Chicagoan]

Free speech is protected. Stating your fair and objective and informed opinion following your personal experience with a casino is totally different than posting something such as "I hear XYZ casino cheats," which could meet the definition of libel. However, be aware that some destinations now insert disclosure statements in their guest contracts that result in fines for negative publicity or negative reviews. The legality of this is still being tested.

[case]

Ko King
You said " well I'm not ashamed to say, I have only finished ahead 2 of the 20+ years I have played the game and neither year was a big win"

If you are playing negative machines your results are perfectly normal. If however you are playing positive machines, then you indeed have a problem.