The Good Side of Video Poker?

[FloridaPhil]

I've been playing video poker for a little over 10 years now.  In the beginning I hacked away at the games with no strategy or clue as to what I was doing.  I liked playing the games, the casino environment and the great resorts, but I was going nowhere.  Somewhere along the line I read some books and articles that got me thinking about what I was doing.  I switched to low variance games, learned to be a better player and the importance of having a separate bankroll and a strategy to protect it.  I never expected to make money playing video poker, however I discovered that video poker done right doesn't have to be all that expensive.Once I gathered my bankroll, I found myself obsessing about protected it and adding to it on a regular basis.  I didn't make money at the game, but I added to it never-the less.  As an unintended consequence of video poker, I found myself becoming a savings addict.  How could "gambling" on a weekly basis turn anyone into a saver?   Playing video poker teaches you that bad things in life happen often and that you need to plan ahead to survive.  I still find it hard to believe that anyone can make millions playing this game, but I totally understand how someone could accumulate money along the way.  I'm not suggesting that anyone take up video poker as financial training, but it does teach you some useful lessons if you let it.  Who knew? 

[olds442jetaway]

Both of my parents having gone through the depression taught us important life lessons early on. Long before IRAs, 401ks, etc. my mom said to pay yourself first meaning put aside a certain amount for savings and a rainy day which will come. After that, what is left is your real paycheck for normal bills etc. We were also taught if you can't pay for it, don't get it. I know this will sound insane to todays youngsters, but I never had a car payment, both the wife and I scrimped and saved to pay off our mortgage in 6 years, and on and on. I know we gave up some tax benefits, but it was still easier to sleep at night. As we progressed in our careers we maxed out our pensions, IRAs, 403B, etc. After that, what was left was ours for normal things or even little extras. Direct deposit goes into savings, not checking. We move money when we have to. No debit cards and credit cards for only certain things. Never paid a penny in credit card interest. Many would argue that life is short which of course it is and enjoy it all while you can and worry about paying the bills later. I understand that thinking somewhat, that is just not our style. I don't think I could even sleep at night with huge financial burdens hanging over my head.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=old442jetaway]Both of my parents having gone through the depression taught us important life lessons early on.[/quote]Some of life's best lessons come from the most unlikely of places.   I was in the IT industry for most of my life.  Going through the dot.com bust in the late nineties prepared us for 2008.  When our friends were making $50K a piece flipping homes, we sat on the sideline.  Most of them went broke at the end and we're still playing video poker.   Life's the same movie playing over and over again.  Pass the popcorn....   

[notes1]

Both of my parents having gone through the depression taught us important life lessons early on. Long before IRAs, 401ks, etc. my mom said to pay yourself first meaning put aside a certain amount for savings and a rainy day which will come. After that, what is left is your real paycheck for normal bills etc. We were also taught if you can't pay for it, don't get it. I know this will sound insane to todays youngsters, but I never had a car payment, both the wife and I scrimped and saved to pay off our mortgage in 6 years, and on and on. I know we gave up some tax benefits, but it was still easier to sleep at night. As we progressed in our careers we maxed out our pensions, IRAs, 403B, etc. After that, what was left was ours for normal things or even little extras. Direct deposit goes into savings, not checking. We move money when we have to. No debit cards and credit cards for only certain things. Never paid a penny in credit card interest. Many would argue that life is short which of course it is and enjoy it all while you can and worry about paying the bills later. I understand that thinking somewhat, that is just not our style. I don't think I could even sleep at night with huge financial burdens hanging over my head.

all should make note of this post. some of the most solid financial advice one will ever read. screw the interest deduction, one still pays interest. never read of a single person getting rich, accumulating credit card points.

[alpax]

[quote=old442jetaway]Both of my parents having gone through the depression taught us important life lessons early on.Some of life's best lessons come from the most unlikely of places.   I was in the IT industry for most of my life.  Going through the dot.com bust in the late nineties prepared us for 2008.  When our friends were making $50K a piece flipping homes, we sat on the sideline.  Most of them went broke at the end and we're still playing video poker.   Life's the same movie playing over and over again.  Pass the popcorn....   
[/QUOTE]

I am aware that the purpose of this thread is to impart wisdom and virtues, which I agree that people should manage their money wisely and not spent more than they can afford, but times have changed quite a ton.

Since this is a video poker forum, lets start with that. The opportunities to make millions from scratch happened 15-20 years ago and is long gone. It is best to stop believing that for sanity purposes. The casinos are offering way less complimentary goods and cash than they are right now. Lots of 100%+ games are disappearing like 20/7 Joker Poker and 40/8 All American. I read somewhere that the casinos are banking on gambling addicts rather than trying to get everyone to come. The books written by Dancer reflect the period of those good times. With all due respect, it is best to shove those books aside and adapt to TODAY's condition. It is better for people to make money in other things than in video poker. I will not deny that the fundamental principles contained in the books are still good TODAY, but the earning power is not as good.

Home ownership is core of the American dream, but now and days it is a pipe dream to many. The price of property has risen so much at least in metropolitan areas over the last two decades where the vast majority are forced to take on 30 year term loans with interest rather than being able to pay in full in a few years like olds did due to higher taxes and higher expenses. By the end of the term, people will end up paying more than 2 to 3 times the worth of the home, depending on how much they can down pay. Once they are locked into a term, pressure is on them to make the payments every month without fail or else it becomes bank owned. People end up renting longer than they want to as they cannot afford the 20% down payment, harder to save up with the expenses they choose to take on.

I too try not to have interest for any credit card debt, but I unintentionally had to twice. First one was based on a payment that got lost in the mail. Second one, I did not read the full fine print on no interest payments for a full year.

As for the dot com market, it is a mixed bag. The companies that survived to become today's Fortune 500 company like Amazon and eBay are fine. But for the companies whose bubble got bursted, it depended if a person cashed out on their equity in time. I knew of a few folks who thought their careers will last just 4 years because of the potential of their stock options. Their options were still in the vesting period when the company went down their drain. I am not sure how Phil ended up in a golden parachute.

Going back to Video Poker, I would say the good side of the game is that it is generally the best odds on the casino floor for people who like casino action. It also gives people who are as good as Dancer (which is not many people) the opportunity to do underhanded things by manipulating the casino to pay for their dining, lodging, gas and transportation, spa treatment, cruises, entertainment, and gifts to sell off.

[notes1]

I agree with what you said about VP. the rest, not so much.

bought first house in 1978, got a bargain interest rate of 7.5%, double the rate today. total household income...less than $20k. average size of a house sold today is more than 50% larger than back in the 70-80's. while the average size of a family is much less.

the DOW peaked in OCT, 2007, at about 14100, today it is nearly 18000. the stock market has not collapsed. that does not count dividends paid.

here is what has changed, people want more, more than they can afford and often at a younger age.

yet another example of folks finding someone or something else to blame their problems on. somebody who has limited income should never step foot in a casino, should buy a moderately priced house, does not need to go on vacation, drive a nice car, eat out, get new clothes, etc.

delayed gratification is the key, most folks want it now.

[alpax]

I just cited specific examples, which is likely different than what you are accustomed to.

[QUOTE]bought first house in 1978, got a bargain interest rate of 7.5%, double the rate today. total household income...less than $20k. average size of a house sold today is more than 50% larger than back in the 70-80's. while the average size of a family is much less. [/QUOTE]

I do not know the property value history of the first house. At least within a 50 mile radius where I am situated, a good amount of the decent neighborhoods saw their property price increase from the high 100k - low 200k to over 500k in a 20 year span. Yes, I was recommended to live in Alabama if I can stand being alone most of the time since 50k can buy much more than many places here.

A new home buyer is looking to take on loans of at least $300k to $400k these days. The interest rate might be in the mid 3 percent these days, but when people are forced to take that kind of loan, their mortgage payments of $3k does not chip away much from what they owe to the bank in quite a while. Interest is compounded monthly so initially most people are paying a bulk towards interest rather than towards the principle.

I agree with the spending habits you mentioned which makes it harder for people to come up with payments.

[QUOTE]the DOW peaked in OCT, 2007, at about 14100, today it is nearly 18000. the stock market has not collapsed. that does not count dividends paid. [/QUOTE]

Most of the dot com startup businesses were private and did not reach IPO status. I am not much of a stock market person, but I do know that private businesses do not have to report earnings/dividends. These startups force the employees to stay for a period of time (usually more than 3 years) in order for the options to vest. These employees take the risk of being paid very meager salaries in hopes for a big payoff. Bunch of dot com places did see initial glimpse of potential when the private investors were at its peak, ultimately there is so much they can invest over any different idea.

[billryan]

Too many people today want more.
I recently sold my Mothers house on Long Island. It was fairly small, three bedrooms, one bath, two car garage, on a 45x100 lot.
At one point in the mid 1970s, my family- lived in it. My parents and three teenagers. Somehow we managed and even thrived there.
Today's young couples want two bathrooms at a minimum.Every child must have their own bedroom.
It took awhile but we found the right buyer- a couple with three teenagers, who are thrilled to have a a yard and a home.The lack of a second bathroom almost killed the deal, but we managed to close the deal at $403,000. His VA loan was for $417 which allowed them to put a second bathroom in the basement.
I'm amazed what $225,000 buys in Vegas.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=alpax] I am not sure how Phil ended up in a golden
parachute.[/quote]The Dot.com situation affected IT businesses in
different ways.   In our case it drastically increased overhead as it
created a huge demand for technically skilled labor.  This bubble
coupled with the Y2K  phenomenon drove up salaries to the point where
bidding wars were created for our best people.   Of course this all came
to an end after Y2K and we found many of the people who left us for
greener pastures back on our doorstep begging to have their old job
back.  We survived and my company still exists today now owned and
operated by my son.  Leading up to this the computer industry was a profit 
powerhouse.  I started my company in 1970 when I was in my early
twenties and retired from the industry in 2000.  I told this story
because I never thought the industry would ever have a downturn.  I
learned otherwise and it made me a better businessman and made me
appreciate the good fortune life dealt me.

[notes1]

you cited specific examples? where? other than mentioning 2 companies that did succeed, everything was generalities and excuses.

I gave specifics not only about interest rates 30 years ago and stock market levels.

most of the companies that went bust in the dot com era, had no chance of succeeding. not only did they not have profits, many did not have revenues. those who chose to work there took a risk, they hoped for big rewards. anyone who counted on stock options from an untested, unproven, no profit company for their future is/was a fool. b/t/w, the DOW was around 10000 in year 2000, when the dot com burst and is nearly 18000 now. lots of folks have made money.

I did not buy a house in AL, rather NYS. I just chose not to live in the highest priced area of the state or the country. most everyone has that same option.

you say I am not accustomed to specifics. here is a specific, I agree with you on one item, you are not much of a stock market person.