Thoughts For Beginners

[FAA]

CS on a two to five coin scale in constant flux keeps even a dishwater dull 99.5% game exciting for me. Of course, if I ever hit a RF I will never forgive myself. I give single coin players with a quad a long stare. That cheap I'm not. 

[FloridaPhil]

Think about this.  Suppose you are a dollar DDB player on a three day vacation at the Beau Rivage in Biloxi, MS.  The best dollar odds you can find are 7/5.  This is a 95.712% game with max coins.  Believe it or not there are some people who will play this game. The most popular DDB game in Florida is 8/5 at 96.786% and players play it for years on end.  Both of these games are huge losers that no number of royal flushes will ever overcome.  Sure you may get lucky on Monday, but by Wednesday your wallet will be hurting.  They give you a free room, maybe even a free flight and you end up paying $1,000 a day for the privilege.  Does anyone here think I'm making this stuff up?  Heck no, I've been there and done it.  A max coin royal flush is a great thing.  If it costs you more than 3 royals worth to win it, it's not so great in my opinion.All CS does is allow you to play lousy games smaller saving you money in the process.  It changes the game from winning only when rare hands appear to a game where you benefit from hands coming in succession.  It is an exciting way to play a normally dull single coin game.  It also creates a game with higher variance.  This is offset by the tendency for the game to "catch up" when hitting common max coin hands making it a game requiring less cash to play.  It is not a replacement for or in any way competes with traditional Bob Dancer strategy.  That strategy teaches players to "NEVER" play any video poker game unless you have an edge.  My strategies are for players who have no choice but to play negative games and want more for their money.

[FAA]

Both games are huge losers that no number of royal flushes will ever overcome. A max coin royal flush is a great thing. If it costs you more than 3 royals worth to win it, it's not so great.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------The situation is less dire on 9/6 JOB, but I can't go all out to nab the RF there either. It would cost more than two RFs. You're just playing into the casino's ever outstretched hands. Twenty percent of the hands, okay, I'll let them make max profit off me. But hopefully it will at least be a wash. 

[FloridaPhil]

I am so weary of the Vegas guys touting mathematics and bring up professional players who claim to profit from the game alone.  We get it.  Unless you can consistently play video poker with an edge, there will always be a long term cost to play.  The alternative is to adjust your cost to your own personal level of comfort.  If that level is $100 a day or $10,000, the only one who is paying that bill is you.  When I'm stuck in a casino and all they offer me is a 97% game or worse, I know they are trying to shake me down.  I adjust my play  to counter that tactic and I win by limiting my loses.  If they offer me a game with less than a 1.5% edge, I'll play their games with max coins and be happy with the cost.

[FAA]

Great outline of your POV. I'm a more reluctant, grudging customer. I somehow think that every trip should at least be a wash. If I get in the red, it's a personal discipline issue.

[billryan]

As an admitted compulsive gambler, perhaps Phil may finally realize why his advocating for bad games and giving horrible advice to beginners is not looked at kindly.
Get the help you need.

[FloridaPhil]

Billy,  I suggest you keep your advice column to Vegas gamblers.  The rest of us don't need your advice or your fantasy stories.  We have all the fairly tales we can handle. Here's one for you.  A loser black jack player gets desperate and goes to one of Bob Dancer's video poker classes.   He gets filled with anticipation and runs to the casino armed with the killer strategy.  He gets lucky for a few weeks and starts blogging like an expert.  Eventually the clock strikes midnight and he turns back into a loser and we never hear from him again.  Sound familiar?  At least it had a happy ending. 

[billryan]

   Phil posted this awhile back. It bothered me then, and now its pretty obvious why.

"Scientists tell us video poker is a powerful drug (look it up).  When we win it releases powerful chemicals in our brains that give us pleasure.  We like the way it feels and we want more, more more...   As anyone who plays video poker knows, the casinos use this to great advantage." From playing like a local.

By the way, Phil. I was and am a successful blackjack player. Just because you, for whatever reason, can't turn a profit doesn't mean you should tell lies about people, although that seems to be a disturbing pattern of yours. Confronted with fact, you turn to lies and personal attacks.
Like most BJ players living in Vegas, I chose to learn a second game. Many of my friends play live poker as its the easiest way to get to Diamond at CET. I suck at it so I chose VP.
You are welcome to all the delusions you want, but when you put them in print, expect to get pushback.

[FloridaPhil]

Billy, you obviously don't know what you are talking about and you sure can't do math.  I posted actual mathematical figures showing why my strategy costs less when playing negative games.  I also posted over $17,000 in jackpots on this forum to backup my claims.  You came on this forum a few months ago and started acting like Bob Dancer himself.  If you're so smart, how about giving us your strategy for playing these games?  Don't cop out like your hero and just say never to play them.  We're listening...

[pokerpokerpoker]

For the vast majority of us there is a cost to play. We can minimize the cost by studying strategy and playing the best games available to us. If the enjoyment you get is worth the cost to play - it is worth it. I reckon the majority of us graduated to VP after getting killed on other casino games, indeed, the cost to play VP is markedly lower than most other forms of gambling.

I have access to many games between 99% - 99.8%, even after a small clawback in comps, I will probably still loose. Not a lot, but a loss nonetheless.

VP is my primary leisure activity, I have no boat, motorcycle, collector car or other expensive hobbies. If I play a few hours a month along with a 3 night trip to Vegas and at the end of the year I loose a grand or two - I can call that square. I could probably tighten the looses up more if I loitered all evening for the drawings and played only on the exact days when some promo is going on. But, this is mostly a leisure activity and I have other responsibilities.

I've seen the FPDW grinders, they don't seem to be having a good time. They look as though they have been there all day, hoping to make their $7/hour. I've heard of people running $10k of action to get a $20 gas card which tipped the game some miniscule percentage in their favor. Nothing wrong with that, if the prospect of a large loss is worth it to get $20. The Dancer Way isn't an option for most of us - we don't have the BR, don't have the intimate details of the slot club, and don't have access to the combination of all these factors to be long-term profitable. That doesn't make us ignorant.