Thoughts For Beginners

[FAA]

Yup, YMMV. As in most things in life, it depends. 

[FloridaPhil]

Actually, I have enjoyed this thread.  It gave me a chance to air out a few things and dispelled some incorrect assumptions about odds and CS that were kicking around.  In reference to Tampa.  I agree the best strategy would be to take double the bankroll and play max coins at the 50 cent level.  Thanks for the advice.  I'll see how it works.  I still think Bill Ryan was put here to rebut everything I say.  I could say Bob Dancer is the greatest person on  Earth and he should run for President and Billy won't read what I said and would come back with another negative comment.  That's fine with me.  If he is in fact a real person, one day he may realize some of the things I said here are actually true.My hope is some new players on this forum might benefit from this discussion.  The days of profitable VP are just about over.  They never existed for most players anyway, so no big loss.  I agree playing the best games you can find accurately yields the best results.  Playing small controls loses.  I recommend doing them both.  I assume someone will find fault with that statement too.  That's the way the world works these days. 

[alpax]

It also helps to time your visits too.

Save this website as a bookmark

https://www.seminolehardrocktampa.com/casino-events.htm

The Hard Rock has drawings during certain days, it seems to be a somewhat fair system to low rollers and high rollers, everyone there gets 1 drawing entry. If your name is called you have a chance at winning something.

Although chances of winning are slim due to the size of the casino, it is something additional the casino is willing to offer.

I do believe Billy is a genuine person, some people can take it as an insult to call someone fictional. Billy has been right on his beliefs, but just prefers to be stern in general from what I see.

Rather than expressing disdain towards Mr. Dancer's methodologies, I think the better way you should have handled things is to ask questions if you do not understand. Mr. Dancer stated he is open to friendly discussions and provided his e-mail:

bobdancerlasvegas "at" yahoo "dot" com

[FloridaPhil]

You are entitled to your own opinion of Billy.  I've tried everything to make peace with him and he just won't stop his negative circus act.  I tried the same thing with Mr. Dancer many times over.  It worked for a new hours and he always answered my questions with an insult or referred to me with a comment.  He just couldn't resist calling me out either in person or with innuendo.  BILLY, YOU'RE RIGHT OK!!!   What is it you want me to say or do?

[alpax]

Yes, I do applaud Billy for encouraging people to avoid bad games and people to seek out G.A. if they have gambling problems.

I believe in my own opinion Billy is not a shill for the casinos.

If you could copy and paste the e-mails that Mr. Dancer responded, that would be nice.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=alpax]Yes, I do applaud Billy for encouraging people to avoid bad games and people to seek out G.A. if they have gambling problems.[/quote]No disagreement with that at all.I have only emailed Mr. Dancer once and that was to thank him.  As is his custom he saw fit to respond with a sarcastic reply.    If you look up our posts before he left you will see I made many attempts to stop our public online bickering.   Each and every time he would reference me in an insulting way before the day was out.  What he wanted was a guarantee that only his opinion was going to be heard.  All I asked for was an open forum where all opinions are allowed to be discussed openly and objectively.  This wasn't good enough for him, so he asked for a vote and lost.  He went on vacation shortly there after.  Billy Ryan showed up a month or so ago with the same attitude.  This forum is not the home of only one idea on all things VP.  As I see it members have the right to express their thoughts even if they are eventually proven wrong.  Many members are afraid to post here or to ask questions for fear of being shouted down or belittled.  Bullying others who do not think like you do does not force them to agree.  That seems to be public policy these days and you can see where it has brought us.

[paco13]

Maybe we need an East Coast section here. Or expand the AC section.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=paco13]Maybe we need an East Coast section here. Or expand the AC section.[/quote]What we need is some understanding that not all video poker players play in the same casino or for the same reasons. What works for a professional in Vegas does not necessarily work for a grandmother in Biloxi.  The games are the same, but the budget, odds and comps are totally different which makes a huge difference in how you approach the game.

[billryan]

[quote=alpax]Yes, I do applaud Billy for encouraging people to avoid bad games and people to seek out G.A. if they have gambling problems.No disagreement with that at all.I have only emailed Mr. Dancer once and that was to thank him.  As is his custom he saw fit to respond with a sarcastic reply.    If you look up our posts before he left you will see I made many attempts to stop our public online bickering.   Each and every time he would reference me in an insulting way before the day was out.  What he wanted was a guarantee that only his opinion was going to be heard.  All I asked for was an open forum where all opinions are allowed to be discussed openly and objectively.  This wasn't good enough for him, so he asked for a vote and lost.  He went on vacation shortly there after.  Billy Ryan showed up a month or so ago with the same attitude.  This forum is not the home of only one idea on all things VP.  As I see it members have the right to express their thoughts even if they are eventually proven wrong.  Many members are afraid to post here or to ask questions for fear of being shouted down or belittled.  Bullying others who do not think like you do does not force them to agree.  That seems to be public policy these days and you can see where it has brought us.

I showed up month ago? Can't you make it through a single post without being dishonest?
Stop spreading voodoo and people will stop calling you for it.
Were you to argue that playing a single coin at a higher amount will allow you to lose less, so be it. It's your nonsensical jump to max coins after every four coin win that earned you the Phil Fa La La La La.... La la la la nickname.
Here's a news flash- not playing crap games will cause you to lose even less money.
You want to be a disciplined player, start by not playing bad games and don't encourage folks who don't know any better to play them either.








[/QUOTE]

[alpax]

I would have to say this is where things got sour. I think it was Phil that instigated the whole conflict. I think from then on there Phil chose to be the enemy, rather than Mr. Dancer initiating it.

Difference between a pro and recreational gambler


[QUOTE=FloridaPhil]
Sure.  Lumping all recreational players into the same group is not at all accurate.  What does Dancer think he is doing in his classes, training pros?  I don't think so.  What if the first thing out of his mouth was the following?"Welcome to Bob Dancer's Video Poker Class.  I love it that you showed up today because you will attempt to follow me and lose you ass trying to duplicate my results.  You could skip a lot of effort if you just sent me a check for your upcoming losses, but I want you to think you did this on your own."  


Wow, FP. You're becoming more and more hostile. Perhaps my criticism of your cheap strategy has turned you into an enemy. I hope not. My comments were not personal at all. I was criticizing what you published, not who you are. Most of my students are recreational players. More than 100,000 of them have come through one or more of my classes since I started holding classes in 1997. Many ask questions during and/or after the classes. It is not my goal to insult them. And for the most part I don't. (And it's probably fair to assume that with some many of them talking to me over the years, I understand the recreational player mindset far better than I'm given credit for around here.)I use the term 'recreational' as a catchall phrase --- meaning, to me,  "doesn't have the understanding that a pro does." You may use the term differently. Any ten recreational players have ten different skill levels (as would ten different pros). Assuming you could rank them, if you want to call the bottom three "ploppies," the middle four "real recreational players," and the highest three "semi-pros," that's fine with me. Only your breakdown will be different than anybody else's because the terms aren't precise. Also, recreational players aren't weak in exactly the same areas. Some have poor game selection. Some have poor game strategies. Some have no understanding of how to milk a slot club. Some use the same strategy for all games and all pay schedules. Some have several of these leaks. Etc. It's impossible to uniquely rank such diverse players on one scale.(Pros differ from each other too. None of us have exactly the same bag of tricks as any other pro.) The fact tact that let yourself play negative games is a problem to deal with, but it does not mean that many of the thought processes the pros use are inapplicable to you. Playing a 97.2% game well is no easier than playing a 99.7% game well. But playing a 97.2% game well leads to better results than playing a 97.2% game poorly. You, FP, are somebody who's actively trying to get more bang for your dollar --- given that you play bad games. Fine. I accept that. A lot of the tools I use are applicable in your situation. You showed considerable thought and skill in creating your cheap strategy. But the final result is ill-equipped to reach your goals.The 'bet one coin' part of it definitely works at reducing your hourly loss. I've written numerous articles over the last 20 years about 'one coin or five.' Betting one coin works at its goal of minimizing your loss while playing bad games. It does have the drawing back of "heartbreak" when you get that one-coin royal. You may be well-equipped to deal with that, FP, but I assure you many players aren't.But your strategy includes sections where you increase your bet on these bad games simply because you've been running good over the past few minutes. This doesn't work. (If it really did work, as soon as you run well for a couple of minutes, rush over to the $100 machine and start banging away. You don't need much money. after all, you're running well! If you can see the fallacy of this, you should be able to see the fallacy of betting max coins on bad games for lower stakes as well.) And calling yourself a recreational player instead of a pro as a badge of honor doesn't make it work any better. It's still bogus mathematics.You study the games and then say things like, (paraphrasing), 'in Deuces Wild I hate going for inside straights, so I don't." That's a leak. That increases your loss --- not because you are playing a bad game but because you are playing a game badly. Every deviation from the computer-perfect strategy costs you. You, FP, are smart enough to understand this. Many others here aren't. Some think they can actually win using your cheap strategy. They are mistaken, assuming we are talking about the sum over 10 or more trips. If you're talking just one session, anything can happen whether you're brilliant or clueless. You don't need any strategy to get lucky once. But over time, the sum of your plays finds its correct level.If you play 97% games one coin at a time, your results will average 95% over time. But 95% of 20% of the coin in definitely is a smaller loss than 97% of 100% of the coin in. It's never a win, but it is a smaller loss.You and I do not have to be enemies, FP. You are smart enough to understand many of the points I try to explain. As you learn more, your results will improve. Just don't be so married to your cheap strategy that you can't learn from others. [/QUOTE]