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[QUOTE=asteroid]
In my opinion, the key takeaway here guys is that we observe a blatant gaming regulations statute violation in Toronto, Canada. So if a casino has no problem with a highly visible violation where a person can simply glance at the paytable to see the violation, then I think it follows that a more subtle RNG violation is clearly on the menu since these sorts of violations are much harder to detect. A Casino could run at -2 standard deviations and never be caught since this is enough to make a lot of money from players even with perfect discarding, yet not a big enough deviation to be easily detectable.
Hey asteroid, I isolated this portion of your post because I feel it is so spot on accurate, and one of the best, well written summations of the issue of potential discrepancies in video poker Machines we players encounter from time to time! You succinctly described how things in a given machine can perpetually continue in a messed fashion with players noticing something is off but not quite being able to define it, prove it or fix it.....For a wide variety of reasons. Keep on the watch asteroid and well done![/QUOTE]
I'll be looking for an explanation very soon concerning 1 casino in Tunica, I don't expect to get one that makes sense but I'm going to put the paperwork right in their face. I'm well beyond the point of noticing something is off, I'm certain something is going on at this casino. Last time I pushed for an answer I was threatened so I ran for the woods, not going to happen this time. This time I have my paperwork and proof in hand, I brought this to the attention of the casino and I received a call requesting I come to the casino and discuss the matter, did not take them up on the offer. I'll be looking for an answer as to how the impossible actually happened.
Help me understand
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asteroid
- Senior Member
- Posts: 191
- Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:36 am
Cheers M8. It's times like these 5oaks where I wish I had an expensive, invasive smartphone (like every1 else) - I almost rolled on the floor laughing when I hit the nearly-exact (same hand with two cards reversed in positions 3 and 4) same 5oak on the machine to the left of the 1st. It smells heavily of a deterministic outcome. Hey asteroid, I isolated this portion of your post because I feel it is so spot on accurate, and one of the best, well written summations of the issue of potential discrepancies in video poker Machines we players encounter from time to time! You succinctly described how things in a given machine can perpetually continue in a messed fashion with players noticing something is off but not quite being able to define it, prove it or fix it.....For a wide variety of reasons. Keep on the watch asteroid and well done!
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asteroid
- Senior Member
- Posts: 191
- Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:36 am
While I have no plans to get a smartphone, I am quite close to deciding to invest in a little electronic camera with a usb port, so I can share the vp anomolies I observe (maybe super Walmart has this for cheap). [QUOTE=DaBurglar] [QUOTE=asteroid]
In my opinion, the key takeaway here guys is that we observe a blatant gaming regulations statute violation in Toronto, Canada. So if a casino has no problem with a highly visible violation where a person can simply glance at the paytable to see the violation, then I think it follows that a more subtle RNG violation is clearly on the menu since these sorts of violations are much harder to detect. A Casino could run at -2 standard deviations and never be caught since this is enough to make a lot of money from players even with perfect discarding, yet not a big enough deviation to be easily detectable.
Hey asteroid, I isolated this portion of your post because I feel it is so spot on accurate, and one of the best, well written summations of the issue of potential discrepancies in video poker Machines we players encounter from time to time! You succinctly described how things in a given machine can perpetually continue in a messed fashion with players noticing something is off but not quite being able to define it, prove it or fix it.....For a wide variety of reasons. Keep on the watch asteroid and well done![/QUOTE]
I'll be looking for an explanation very soon concerning 1 casino in Tunica, I don't expect to get one that makes sense but I'm going to put the paperwork right in their face. I'm well beyond the point of noticing something is off, I'm certain something is going on at this casino. Last time I pushed for an answer I was threatened so I ran for the woods, not going to happen this time. This time I have my paperwork and proof in hand, I brought this to the attention of the casino and I received a call requesting I come to the casino and discuss the matter, did not take them up on the offer. I'll be looking for an answer as to how the impossible actually happened.[/QUOTE]
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onemoretry
- Video Poker Master
- Posts: 3028
- Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2009 8:00 pm
It's not. Spxchrome, look at this case where a casino in Ontario,Canada violates Ontariogaming statutes by offering an 84.42% vp game (db/ddb/bp hybrid with the worst of three worlds) where Ontario gaming regulations stipulate a minimum 88% payback for vp
Sometimes, there is more to a game than simply the basic pay table. I looked up the thread where this was posted, and noticed that the poster of this pay table indicated that the name of the game was one he had never seen before.
There is a slightly better version of that pay table (the full house is 8, not 6) on a game at Casino Rama, where I still go occasionally.
The name of the game is Triple Action Poker. When your completed hand contains at least three threes, you play the next nine hands with the pay table tripled. This feature adds in the neighbourhood of 10% to the game's return, bringing it to somewhere in the mid 90s. Still not much of a game, but I see a lot of people playing it.
Since the picture shows nothing except the basic pay table, its not possible to know for sure if this is an explanation as to how this pay table is allowed to exist. It is, however, a pretty strong possibility.
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Vman96
- Video Poker Master
- Posts: 3298
- Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:49 am
[QUOTE=asteroid]
It's not. Spxchrome, look at this case where a casino in Ontario,Canada violates Ontariogaming statutes by offering an 84.42% vp game (db/ddb/bp hybrid with the worst of three worlds) where Ontario gaming regulations stipulate a minimum 88% payback for vp
Sometimes, there is more to a game than simply the basic pay table. I looked up the thread where this was posted, and noticed that the poster of this pay table indicated that the name of the game was one he had never seen before.
There is a slightly better version of that pay table (the full house is 8, not 6) on a game at Casino Rama, where I still go occasionally.
The name of the game is Triple Action Poker. When your completed hand contains at least three threes, you play the next nine hands with the pay table tripled. This feature adds in the neighbourhood of 10% to the game's return, bringing it to somewhere in the mid 90s. Still not much of a game, but I see a lot of people playing it.
Since the picture shows nothing except the basic pay table, its not possible to know for sure if this is an explanation as to how this pay table is allowed to exist. It is, however, a pretty strong possibility.[/QUOTE]
I am glad to hear this. I thought there might be some "catch". Hope he didn't follow through filing with the gaming commission if this is the case. I was the one quoting the laws as "tringlomane".
It's not. Spxchrome, look at this case where a casino in Ontario,Canada violates Ontariogaming statutes by offering an 84.42% vp game (db/ddb/bp hybrid with the worst of three worlds) where Ontario gaming regulations stipulate a minimum 88% payback for vp
Sometimes, there is more to a game than simply the basic pay table. I looked up the thread where this was posted, and noticed that the poster of this pay table indicated that the name of the game was one he had never seen before.
There is a slightly better version of that pay table (the full house is 8, not 6) on a game at Casino Rama, where I still go occasionally.
The name of the game is Triple Action Poker. When your completed hand contains at least three threes, you play the next nine hands with the pay table tripled. This feature adds in the neighbourhood of 10% to the game's return, bringing it to somewhere in the mid 90s. Still not much of a game, but I see a lot of people playing it.
Since the picture shows nothing except the basic pay table, its not possible to know for sure if this is an explanation as to how this pay table is allowed to exist. It is, however, a pretty strong possibility.[/QUOTE]
I am glad to hear this. I thought there might be some "catch". Hope he didn't follow through filing with the gaming commission if this is the case. I was the one quoting the laws as "tringlomane".
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Vman96
- Video Poker Master
- Posts: 3298
- Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:49 am
[QUOTE=spxChrome]
In MS we have a law that no VP machine is allowed to payback over 100%. After a couple of years they finally took a row of DDB out that was over 100% but left 2 in the high limit section that are still there. Again, another violation.
Where are the machines in Ms. that have over 100%?[/QUOTE]
Yes I would also like to know this... And are you sure you're not confusing 50(straight flush)/10/6 DDB (100.07%) with 40(straight flush)/10/6 DDB (99.96%)? Tunica Roadhouse whipped my butt with the latter game before they downgraded...
Here's a prettier picture of the 40/10/6 DDB game from SLS Las Vegas, which also no longer offers the game.
As for koking's "impossible claim", how impossible are we talking? Have you gone without Aces w/kicker for 250,000 hands in a row or something? Unless the event that happened to you is less than 1 in 100,000 to happen in a fair game, they probably won't care. And even if it is, not sure if they will believe your data. Depends about how it's compiled. But if you complain to them, there is obviously a chance they will do a machine check for you, since that is their job...
And I know you don't want to possibly unfairly badmouth the casino, but I would also be curious to know. I would find it funny if it was Resorts or Gold Strike though...my results may have those places "rigged" in my favor... Historically, Harrah's was my worst casino down there before they closed.
In MS we have a law that no VP machine is allowed to payback over 100%. After a couple of years they finally took a row of DDB out that was over 100% but left 2 in the high limit section that are still there. Again, another violation.
Where are the machines in Ms. that have over 100%?[/QUOTE]
Yes I would also like to know this... And are you sure you're not confusing 50(straight flush)/10/6 DDB (100.07%) with 40(straight flush)/10/6 DDB (99.96%)? Tunica Roadhouse whipped my butt with the latter game before they downgraded...
Here's a prettier picture of the 40/10/6 DDB game from SLS Las Vegas, which also no longer offers the game.
As for koking's "impossible claim", how impossible are we talking? Have you gone without Aces w/kicker for 250,000 hands in a row or something? Unless the event that happened to you is less than 1 in 100,000 to happen in a fair game, they probably won't care. And even if it is, not sure if they will believe your data. Depends about how it's compiled. But if you complain to them, there is obviously a chance they will do a machine check for you, since that is their job...
And I know you don't want to possibly unfairly badmouth the casino, but I would also be curious to know. I would find it funny if it was Resorts or Gold Strike though...my results may have those places "rigged" in my favor... Historically, Harrah's was my worst casino down there before they closed.
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ko king
- VP Veteran
- Posts: 670
- Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:13 pm
[QUOTE=ko king] [QUOTE=spxChrome]
In MS we have a law that no VP machine is allowed to payback over 100%. After a couple of years they finally took a row of DDB out that was over 100% but left 2 in the high limit section that are still there. Again, another violation.
Where are the machines in Ms. that have over 100%?[/QUOTE]
Yes I would also like to know this... And are you sure you're not confusing 50(straight flush)/10/6 DDB (100.07%) with 40(straight flush)/10/6 DDB (99.96%)? Tunica Roadhouse whipped my butt with the latter game before they downgraded...
Here's a prettier picture of the 40/10/6 DDB game from SLS Las Vegas, which also no longer offers the game.
As for koking's "impossible claim", how impossible are we talking? Have you gone without Aces w/kicker for 250,000 hands in a row or something? Unless the event that happened to you is less than 1 in 100,000 to happen in a fair game, they probably won't care. And even if it is, not sure if they will believe your data. Depends about how it's compiled. But if you complain to them, there is obviously a chance they will do a machine check for you, since that is their job...
And I know you don't want to possibly unfairly badmouth the casino, but I would also be curious to know. I would find it funny if it was Resorts or Gold Strike though...my results may have those places "rigged" in my favor... Historically, Harrah's was my worst casino down there before they closed. [/QUOTE]
You're getting very close to that 250k hand total without aces w/k nor a royal flush. The small quads come like clockwork but every quality hand is so far out of bounds it's just unbelievable to me. Even quad aces are running far below the norm. I've had different people pass along reasons as to why they think it is, most think it's because I'm the only fool who plays $1 denomination there. I have paid attention and there's no question I have never see any other player playing at the $1 denom, that's not to say there aren't any I just haven't seen them. The pay tables for the game are pretty decent for Tunica though, I just can't find the quality hands. I've done pretty decent at Resorts despite playing the same exact game with worse pay tables, As far as Gold Strike goes I've well above average there for the same game, better pay tables also. Now any person with sense would say just quit playing there but I can't stop myself, I'm obsessed with seeing this adventure thru. I quit playing there for a while but I drifted back into the place and every time I go I keep thinking this unbelievable cold streak will end today, but it never does.
In MS we have a law that no VP machine is allowed to payback over 100%. After a couple of years they finally took a row of DDB out that was over 100% but left 2 in the high limit section that are still there. Again, another violation.
Where are the machines in Ms. that have over 100%?[/QUOTE]
Yes I would also like to know this... And are you sure you're not confusing 50(straight flush)/10/6 DDB (100.07%) with 40(straight flush)/10/6 DDB (99.96%)? Tunica Roadhouse whipped my butt with the latter game before they downgraded...
Here's a prettier picture of the 40/10/6 DDB game from SLS Las Vegas, which also no longer offers the game.
As for koking's "impossible claim", how impossible are we talking? Have you gone without Aces w/kicker for 250,000 hands in a row or something? Unless the event that happened to you is less than 1 in 100,000 to happen in a fair game, they probably won't care. And even if it is, not sure if they will believe your data. Depends about how it's compiled. But if you complain to them, there is obviously a chance they will do a machine check for you, since that is their job...
And I know you don't want to possibly unfairly badmouth the casino, but I would also be curious to know. I would find it funny if it was Resorts or Gold Strike though...my results may have those places "rigged" in my favor... Historically, Harrah's was my worst casino down there before they closed. [/QUOTE]
You're getting very close to that 250k hand total without aces w/k nor a royal flush. The small quads come like clockwork but every quality hand is so far out of bounds it's just unbelievable to me. Even quad aces are running far below the norm. I've had different people pass along reasons as to why they think it is, most think it's because I'm the only fool who plays $1 denomination there. I have paid attention and there's no question I have never see any other player playing at the $1 denom, that's not to say there aren't any I just haven't seen them. The pay tables for the game are pretty decent for Tunica though, I just can't find the quality hands. I've done pretty decent at Resorts despite playing the same exact game with worse pay tables, As far as Gold Strike goes I've well above average there for the same game, better pay tables also. Now any person with sense would say just quit playing there but I can't stop myself, I'm obsessed with seeing this adventure thru. I quit playing there for a while but I drifted back into the place and every time I go I keep thinking this unbelievable cold streak will end today, but it never does.
