Using the players club card

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paco13
VP Veteran
Posts: 591
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 9:58 am

Re: Using the players club card

Post by paco13 »

What really pisses me off is when you finish a losing session but think "well, at least I earned points" then you look up to see that it hasn't been reading your card all along. Always check before you start playing and every now again while playing. Dunno why but I have had card readers stop reading after it initially connected.

billryan
Video Poker Master
Posts: 4422
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 1:20 pm

Post by billryan »

I've gotten in the habit of checking the card every few minutes. Paco's scenario has happened far too often to me.

FloridaPhil
Video Poker Master
Posts: 6229
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:28 am

Post by FloridaPhil »

[quote]What really pisses me off is when you finish a losing session but think
"well, at least I earned points" then you look up to see that it hasn't
been reading your card all along. Always check before you start playing
and every now again while playing. Dunno why but I have had card readers
stop reading after it initially connected.[/quote]Yet another way a casino can artificially increase their edge...  


paco13
VP Veteran
Posts: 591
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 9:58 am

Post by paco13 »

Indeed Phil. Another thing that crossed my mind. We often discuss how much control the casino's have and like this discussion about weather the card has any impact on your outcome. Now I chose to believe it doesn't and that using the card Befits you far more than not but it is interesting that when I play on my birthday the screen will display a happy birthday message when I insert my card. It has at Mount airy anyway. t knows who you are, your play habits, wins, losses, preferred denom and wager etc. Now they may have no control over the RNG of the game itself but could they not control these card readers in order (as you say) increase their edge by means of your comps,tier status, free play etc.? Or throw you a bone to keep you coming back or to stay longer. I recall seeing a show once that indicated some casinos use facial recognition software as well as software that reads your emotions by means of facial expressions it learns from watching you. So they could easily tell if you are about to head for the door.

ko king
VP Veteran
Posts: 670
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:13 pm

Post by ko king »

[QUOTE=phnxnmartini] I always use my players card, especially because it tracks your win/losses and you can get a report at the end of the year for tax purposes.

Those reports cannot be trusted for tax purposes; you should track the machine you're on, how much you put in, and how much you take out.

Each and every time, each and every machine. [/QUOTE]

Isn't that the truth, I've kept track of my play myself over all the years playing. About 3 years ago I started requesting won/loss statements from all the different casinos I attend, I am shocked at how far off some of them are. Now it's not all casinos some are in the neighborhood of my actual results. In 2014 for instance I played a lot at one casino and my total losses for that year at that casino were just over $6K playing $2 denomination vp, the casino won/loss report showed me ahead by over $13K. Now this year I just received my won/loss statements for 2016 in which I played almost all $1 denomination vp. Once again I ended up losing about $2,500 at that same casino, their win/loss statement says I finished ahead over $6K for the year. The sister casino to this same casino in which I had actual losses show that I won over $8K for 2016. I could understand a few hundred dollars difference but that's just crazy.

Raner
Senior Member
Posts: 131
Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:02 am

Post by Raner »

Found this online...
Could not link the URL...Seems this forum has URL restrictions applied...
So here is the copy and paste version...

Question      
Subject: Land Base Casinos Machines
Question ID: 780462

Today, when a player plays machine games in land base casinos (Vegas
for example), he has a card that saves information about him and about
his play.
I would like to know if the casino saves the exact decision of the
player, for example the cards the player saved in a Video Poker game?
if not, do they plan to do it in the near future?
another question, is it legal to save these information? right of
privacy and alike?
Haim

Answer      
Subject: Re: Land Base Casinos Machines
Answered By: keystroke-ga on 05 Dec 2006 17:42 PST

Hello Haim,

Thank you for your question.

You're talking about what is known as a "slot card", and I don't
believe you need to have any privacy concerns about this practice, at
the moment at least. First of all, it's not required of all those who
use slot machines, only those who wish to be in the slot club and get
rewards for playing. Slot clubs are basically like cashback reward
credit cards-- you get money and/or rewards back every time you play
the slots at that particular casino and use the card.

If you're wondering whether the casino could track what cards you play
and somehow try to affect the game's odds after that when you play,
there is no reason to worry over that possibility, either. The odds
of winning are the same with or without the card, although people
often believe the myth that you will win less with a card because the
casino will be able to tell that you've won before.

Ask the Slot Expert
http://robison.casinocitytimes.com/articles/399.html

"Now, there is a connection between the main circuitry in a slot
machine and the slot club data collection board. The connection is
purely for reporting purposes. The slot machine reports to the slot
club board now much you bet on each spin and what the results of the
spin were. The slot club board collects the data and sends it back to
the main slot club computer. The slot club board does not tell the
computer in the slot machine to do anything differently.

Use your slot club card every time you play. Otherwise, you'll just be
cheating yourself out of comps you have earned."

It is within the realm of possibility that a casino could use the
cards to track each player's particular movements on each play, but it
is not in their interest. All they care about is tracking how much
the player wins and loses, not exactly how they get there. The system
is called SMART-Slot Marketing and Revenue Tracking. The casino can
track any information about you that they want. They track how many
hours you play, what machines are your favorites, and your
denomination.

'Column 56 - "Deal Me In" by Mark Pilarski'
http://www.markpilarski.com/column56.html

"With the swipe of your slot club card, onboard software knows your
name, address, interests, denomination of play, favorite machines, how
much you have invested, your winnings at any given hour and if you
have a dog named Sparky. Tell a slot host any pertinent information
about yourself and it's fair game for the casino's computer database."

In fact, many slot machine experts recommend to never play slots
without using you slot card, so that you can get rewards back for
every time you play.

http://www.LINKNOTALLOWED.com/slots/str ... y-240.html
"Going Clubbing - Slot Clubbing That Is"

"One of the most common misconceptions concerning slot clubs is the
notion that the casinos gauge how much players are winning through the
card?that if you use a player?s club card, you will win less; or if
you do not use a card you will win more. The player?s club card is
only there to record play. It is hooked to a reading apparatus that is
completely separate from the random number generator which controls
whether or not the game returns a winning result on any given spin or
poker hand. The slot club card has absolutely no effect on the results
of the slot game to which it is linked. The slot club is linked to the
marketing department, which is concerned about how much you play, not
how much you win or lose."

When you sign up to the slot club, you are most likely given an
agreement from the casino that sets out the terms and conditions to be
anything they want. They could decide to keep this information on
each player, but why would they? Their only motive is to make money.
They don't care if you're a bad player or if you are gambling too
much. That makes them more money. That's why they have loyalty
programs like slot clubs-- to identify and reward loyal players. A
casino would have to track millions of games by thousands of users,
and this would cost them money.

Some people do have concerns about slot club privacy-- they don't want
to be on mailing lists or face the possibility of their total winnings
being reported to the IRS. Some are worried that losing players and
winning players will be treated differently; losing players could be
given rewards and rewards taken away from winning players, to maximise
the chances that the losing player will keep losing.

Basically, if you want complete and total privacy of your moves while
in the casino, don't use a slot card. If you want total privacy, you
should also not be in a land-based casino, because casinos have
surveillance cameras all over which are recording every inch of the
place.

Sources:

Strictly Slots
"Oh, No! Slot Clubs are Getting Better
As technology improves, players? privacy could become an issue"
http://www.strictlyslots.com/archive/0407ss/afaic.html

Search terms:
"slot club card"
"slot club card" + privacy
"slot club" + privacy concerns

ko king
VP Veteran
Posts: 670
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:13 pm

Post by ko king »

Found this online...
Could not link the URL...Seems this forum has URL restrictions applied...
So here is the copy and paste version...

Question      
Subject: Land Base Casinos Machines
Question ID: 780462

Today, when a player plays machine games in land base casinos (Vegas
for example), he has a card that saves information about him and about
his play.
I would like to know if the casino saves the exact decision of the
player, for example the cards the player saved in a Video Poker game?
if not, do they plan to do it in the near future?
another question, is it legal to save these information? right of
privacy and alike?
Haim

Answer      
Subject: Re: Land Base Casinos Machines
Answered By: keystroke-ga on 05 Dec 2006 17:42 PST

Hello Haim,

Thank you for your question.

You're talking about what is known as a "slot card", and I don't
believe you need to have any privacy concerns about this practice, at
the moment at least. First of all, it's not required of all those who
use slot machines, only those who wish to be in the slot club and get
rewards for playing. Slot clubs are basically like cashback reward
credit cards-- you get money and/or rewards back every time you play
the slots at that particular casino and use the card.

If you're wondering whether the casino could track what cards you play
and somehow try to affect the game's odds after that when you play,
there is no reason to worry over that possibility, either. The odds
of winning are the same with or without the card, although people
often believe the myth that you will win less with a card because the
casino will be able to tell that you've won before.

Ask the Slot Expert
http://robison.casinocitytimes.com/articles/399.html

"Now, there is a connection between the main circuitry in a slot
machine and the slot club data collection board. The connection is
purely for reporting purposes. The slot machine reports to the slot
club board now much you bet on each spin and what the results of the
spin were. The slot club board collects the data and sends it back to
the main slot club computer. The slot club board does not tell the
computer in the slot machine to do anything differently.

Use your slot club card every time you play. Otherwise, you'll just be
cheating yourself out of comps you have earned."

It is within the realm of possibility that a casino could use the
cards to track each player's particular movements on each play, but it
is not in their interest. All they care about is tracking how much
the player wins and loses, not exactly how they get there. The system
is called SMART-Slot Marketing and Revenue Tracking. The casino can
track any information about you that they want. They track how many
hours you play, what machines are your favorites, and your
denomination.

'Column 56 - "Deal Me In" by Mark Pilarski'
http://www.markpilarski.com/column56.html

"With the swipe of your slot club card, onboard software knows your
name, address, interests, denomination of play, favorite machines, how
much you have invested, your winnings at any given hour and if you
have a dog named Sparky. Tell a slot host any pertinent information
about yourself and it's fair game for the casino's computer database."

In fact, many slot machine experts recommend to never play slots
without using you slot card, so that you can get rewards back for
every time you play.

http://www.LINKNOTALLOWED.com/slots/str ... y-240.html
"Going Clubbing - Slot Clubbing That Is"

"One of the most common misconceptions concerning slot clubs is the
notion that the casinos gauge how much players are winning through the
card?that if you use a player?s club card, you will win less; or if
you do not use a card you will win more. The player?s club card is
only there to record play. It is hooked to a reading apparatus that is
completely separate from the random number generator which controls
whether or not the game returns a winning result on any given spin or
poker hand. The slot club card has absolutely no effect on the results
of the slot game to which it is linked. The slot club is linked to the
marketing department, which is concerned about how much you play, not
how much you win or lose."

When you sign up to the slot club, you are most likely given an
agreement from the casino that sets out the terms and conditions to be
anything they want. They could decide to keep this information on
each player, but why would they? Their only motive is to make money.
They don't care if you're a bad player or if you are gambling too
much. That makes them more money. That's why they have loyalty
programs like slot clubs-- to identify and reward loyal players. A
casino would have to track millions of games by thousands of users,
and this would cost them money.

Some people do have concerns about slot club privacy-- they don't want
to be on mailing lists or face the possibility of their total winnings
being reported to the IRS. Some are worried that losing players and
winning players will be treated differently; losing players could be
given rewards and rewards taken away from winning players, to maximise
the chances that the losing player will keep losing.

Basically, if you want complete and total privacy of your moves while
in the casino, don't use a slot card. If you want total privacy, you
should also not be in a land-based casino, because casinos have
surveillance cameras all over which are recording every inch of the
place.

Sources:

Strictly Slots
"Oh, No! Slot Clubs are Getting Better
As technology improves, players? privacy could become an issue"
http://www.strictlyslots.com/archive/0407ss/afaic.html

Search terms:
"slot club card"
"slot club card" + privacy
"slot club" + privacy concerns


You know I was just reading about this and I realized something that happens to me all the time. I'll put my players card in the machine and won't even pay attention that for whatever reason the machine didn't read my card, sometimes I catch it right away and many times I'm just not paying attention to it. That may explain why my records don't match up to my win/loss statements. I'll stick my card in some machines over and over again and it won't register, I don't make a big deal out of it and play them anyway. I've had other times when my card wouldn't work in the any of the machines and I would go to the slot club booth and find a long line and just play without my card that day. I rarely don't take advantage of any of the offers I get so it really doesn't bother me but it does make sense to me now why I might be seeing a difference in my actual results and what they record as my results. I hate playing slots so I stick to vp and the casinos in this area don't allow you to use free play offers on vp machines so it really hasn't mattered to me in the past. If the system didn't register my card or I didn't bother to use it they wouldn't have a clue I dropped $2k that day.

FloridaPhil
Video Poker Master
Posts: 6229
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:28 am

Post by FloridaPhil »



[quote=ko king] I'll put my players card in the machine and won't even pay attention
that for whatever reason the machine didn't read my card, sometimes I
catch it right away and many times I'm just not paying attention to it.[/quote]This is a common occurrence, especially at casinos where the maintenance is sub par.  It's so aggravating to play an hour of dollar VP and find that you didn't get credit for it.  We value our comps.  They are mostly free rooms, drinks and food, but they do add up.   On a three day trip we normally don't pay for anything except gambling and we stay in some pretty nice places. The only time I will not put my card in a machine is if I'm going to play single coin.  I don't play much single coin VP anymore, but I will if I'm killing time playing slots.  You never want to use your card when betting small, it messes with your comps and offers.  I have witnessed this first hand. 


Raner
Senior Member
Posts: 131
Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:02 am

Post by Raner »

Hi Ko...
Make sure the machine your going to play is reading your card. There can be a bunch of reasons why the machine is not reading the card.
Worn out magnetic strip...
Worn out or dirty card reader...
Bad connection to the slot club player server...
This are just some of the causes there are a lot more...
If you want to play a certain machine and you can't get the machine to read the card. Get someone that works on the casino floor to help you...
A few months back I went to play for the first time at the Isle of Capri in Lake Charles Louisiana. So I went t to so sign up for a player's card. When we were done the attendant asked me what kind of slots did I play. I answered dollar Video Poker only. She informed me that the card would save my free play points but I could not use them to play video poker. I would have to play a regular slot machine to redeem them. The other thing she informed me about was that I just had to type in my pin number playing a regular slot and the machine would automatically add up to twenty dollars at a time to my counter. If I wanted more then twenty dollars then I would have to repeat the process. I thanked her and went to find a machine. On the second day I noticed I had 190 dollars in players points. So I said to myself, I wonder what if. So I went to the nearest regular dollar slot inserted my card, clicked in my pin on the keyboard. Then I typed in a 20 dollar amount and got it. Then I just kept repeating the process till I got all my 190 dollars and then I simply cashed out. The machine printed my ticket and I was off to the races...

ko king
VP Veteran
Posts: 670
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:13 pm

Post by ko king »

Hi Ko...
Make sure the machine your going to play is reading your card. There can be a bunch of reasons why the machine is not reading the card.
Worn out magnetic strip...
Worn out or dirty card reader...
Bad connection to the slot club player server...
This are just some of the causes there are a lot more...
If you want to play a certain machine and you can't get the machine to read the card. Get someone that works on the casino floor to help you...
A few months back I went to play for the first time at the Isle of Capri in Lake Charles Louisiana. So I went t to so sign up for a player's card. When we were done the attendant asked me what kind of slots did I play. I answered dollar Video Poker only. She informed me that the card would save my free play points but I could not use them to play video poker. I would have to play a regular slot machine to redeem them. The other thing she informed me about was that I just had to type in my pin number playing a regular slot and the machine would automatically add up to twenty dollars at a time to my counter. If I wanted more then twenty dollars then I would have to repeat the process. I thanked her and went to find a machine. On the second day I noticed I had 190 dollars in players points. So I said to myself, I wonder what if. So I went to the nearest regular dollar slot inserted my card, clicked in my pin on the keyboard. Then I typed in a 20 dollar amount and got it. Then I just kept repeating the process till I got all my 190 dollars and then I simply cashed out. The machine printed my ticket and I was off to the races...

Probably a combination of all the reasons you mentioned. I really just go to play and don't enjoy all the hassle of getting the card to work. I'm happy enough to find a machine that all the buttons work on and has a screen that works right.

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