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The casinos don't need to mess with machines as the odds are already in their favor, unless the machines are full pay.
ZID...You said the machines were "changed" and no one was playing. So how does that benefit the casino?? They don't make money by paying staff and hydro to have the machines sit empty. See how that makes no sense.
Machines don't pay out too much....or too less. They are there for the long term and pay out the odds on the machine.
You hear gamblers say anything can happen in the short term and that is true. But machines are there for the long term and they will payout EV.
I call it 1-2-3 DDB
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billryan
- Video Poker Master
- Posts: 4422
- Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 1:20 pm
Look above. Click on the box that says "Learn
Scroll down to Pay Tables. Open it and read it. Then go back and read the link to Superstitions.
You've picked up bad information along the way. Don't feel bad. It seems half the posters here still believe in hot and cold machines.
If you can't rid yourself of these false ideas, long term success is almost impossible.
Also, be sure not to play what is called a video lottery terminal. Some jurisdictions have machines that look like video poker but operate as lottery terminals. A little correct knowledge goes a long way.
Sadly, these forums have a lot of what Trump would call "fake news" reporters who believe and post what I will generously call Alternative Facts.
At the bottom of this screen under shop, there are a number of books. My preferred authority is Bob Dancer but I'd imagine anyone this site sells would be good.
Just no John Patrick.
Scroll down to Pay Tables. Open it and read it. Then go back and read the link to Superstitions.
You've picked up bad information along the way. Don't feel bad. It seems half the posters here still believe in hot and cold machines.
If you can't rid yourself of these false ideas, long term success is almost impossible.
Also, be sure not to play what is called a video lottery terminal. Some jurisdictions have machines that look like video poker but operate as lottery terminals. A little correct knowledge goes a long way.
Sadly, these forums have a lot of what Trump would call "fake news" reporters who believe and post what I will generously call Alternative Facts.
At the bottom of this screen under shop, there are a number of books. My preferred authority is Bob Dancer but I'd imagine anyone this site sells would be good.
Just no John Patrick.
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Zid
- Forum Rookie
- Posts: 31
- Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2015 5:38 pm
Case --
If I sell $27 hamburgers and business drops off, why wouldn't I drop my price -- knowing I made good/better profit when the burgers were priced differently?
I know this is all kindergarten stuff to many here, but I have yet to read or have documented ANYTHING to show that a slot machine -- like any machine -- can't be adjusted/modified or whatever-you-want-to-call it for the desired effect. i.e. Maximum benefit to the prudent owner of the machine. Consider the supposed dropoff in overall vp play as noted on this web site and then maybe ask yourself: If I owned the casino, might I want to attract more business with "devices" that smile more on my customers?
But I'll keep reading...
If I sell $27 hamburgers and business drops off, why wouldn't I drop my price -- knowing I made good/better profit when the burgers were priced differently?
I know this is all kindergarten stuff to many here, but I have yet to read or have documented ANYTHING to show that a slot machine -- like any machine -- can't be adjusted/modified or whatever-you-want-to-call it for the desired effect. i.e. Maximum benefit to the prudent owner of the machine. Consider the supposed dropoff in overall vp play as noted on this web site and then maybe ask yourself: If I owned the casino, might I want to attract more business with "devices" that smile more on my customers?
But I'll keep reading...
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Zid
- Forum Rookie
- Posts: 31
- Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2015 5:38 pm
billryan:
I read the article and saw no reference to the casinos ability or inability to adjust the RATE of return on any video poker machine.
I guess I am suggesting that a pay table, for me, suggests the THEORETICAL payouts for given hands in vp play, but not the frequency or those returns on any particular machine.
So I am still waiting for a statement of fact. And I agree with you that there is so much opinion mixed with fact these days, it's almost impossible to know the fake from the real.
So yes, my opinion and feeling until shown otherwise: Casinos have pay tables for vp hands. They are posted right on the machine. Those pay tables are often identical to the pay tables on the universe of vp machines all over the world. But the frequency of those pay table pay-outs remains in question -- and, I still tend to assume, a factor of how much the casino is willing to part with to maximize its customer base and overall profit.
I read the article and saw no reference to the casinos ability or inability to adjust the RATE of return on any video poker machine.
I guess I am suggesting that a pay table, for me, suggests the THEORETICAL payouts for given hands in vp play, but not the frequency or those returns on any particular machine.
So I am still waiting for a statement of fact. And I agree with you that there is so much opinion mixed with fact these days, it's almost impossible to know the fake from the real.
So yes, my opinion and feeling until shown otherwise: Casinos have pay tables for vp hands. They are posted right on the machine. Those pay tables are often identical to the pay tables on the universe of vp machines all over the world. But the frequency of those pay table pay-outs remains in question -- and, I still tend to assume, a factor of how much the casino is willing to part with to maximize its customer base and overall profit.
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Zid
- Forum Rookie
- Posts: 31
- Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2015 5:38 pm
case --
Regarding your question: "HOW DOES THAT BENEFIT THE CASINO?".
Myself as a case in point: I had a stellar first half of 2016, winning $25K in assorted vp jackpots. The 2nd half of the year, butkus. I stayed away for a time (as did a lot of other folks I saw and got to know there in the past) but kept an "eye" on the high stakes vp corner and gradually re-tested the waters, so to speak. When the winning resumed, I assumed the casino got the message: the vp player numbers had dropped considerably and the lower frequency of payouts was the reason why.
So, if the payouts have changed -- as it appears they have the last 6 weeks or so -- maybe it's something beyond the law of averages. Maybe, just maybe, the casino chose to have guys like me back and playing for a more reasonable gambling tug-o-war -- making mechanical adjustments that were simply good business.
BTW, I am a forum newbie, but I have been playing video poker for 25 years. I'd rate myself as a B- in the perfect play department -- and a "C " in the discipline division -- but I still have fun and -- now and then -- see a nice pay day.
Regarding your question: "HOW DOES THAT BENEFIT THE CASINO?".
Myself as a case in point: I had a stellar first half of 2016, winning $25K in assorted vp jackpots. The 2nd half of the year, butkus. I stayed away for a time (as did a lot of other folks I saw and got to know there in the past) but kept an "eye" on the high stakes vp corner and gradually re-tested the waters, so to speak. When the winning resumed, I assumed the casino got the message: the vp player numbers had dropped considerably and the lower frequency of payouts was the reason why.
So, if the payouts have changed -- as it appears they have the last 6 weeks or so -- maybe it's something beyond the law of averages. Maybe, just maybe, the casino chose to have guys like me back and playing for a more reasonable gambling tug-o-war -- making mechanical adjustments that were simply good business.
BTW, I am a forum newbie, but I have been playing video poker for 25 years. I'd rate myself as a B- in the perfect play department -- and a "C " in the discipline division -- but I still have fun and -- now and then -- see a nice pay day.
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Zid
- Forum Rookie
- Posts: 31
- Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2015 5:38 pm
P.S. So what's in it for the casino to dial back the mystery "house wins" meter? Answer: Guys like me who, while
winning $25K in jackpots in 2016, was still a net loser to the tune of $21K. That's according to the tax statement received from the casino.
winning $25K in jackpots in 2016, was still a net loser to the tune of $21K. That's according to the tax statement received from the casino.
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Zid
- Forum Rookie
- Posts: 31
- Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2015 5:38 pm
>>>>>ZID...You said the machines were "changed" and no one was playing. So how does that benefit the casino?? They don't make money by paying staff and hydro to have the machines sit empty. See how that makes no sense.
Further clarifying: In my theoretical world, the casinos -- like any business -- are constantly weighing their profit and loss -- which is to say the give and take between the casino and its clientele. The attempt, if you will, to find the sweet spot where players still play and the casino makes max profit. Overdo either end of that equation = the house loses. One way or the other.
So it's always about the sweet spot. If you've ever been in business, you know.
Further clarifying: In my theoretical world, the casinos -- like any business -- are constantly weighing their profit and loss -- which is to say the give and take between the casino and its clientele. The attempt, if you will, to find the sweet spot where players still play and the casino makes max profit. Overdo either end of that equation = the house loses. One way or the other.
So it's always about the sweet spot. If you've ever been in business, you know.
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Onenickelmiracl
- Senior Member
- Posts: 332
- Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2012 8:43 am
Confirmation bias in effect. If you make 100 $1 bets, lose half, make 10 $100 bets winning 8, you'll feel great. When you do this varying bets, it's just the affect of luck becomes so much more important. I'll suggest instead of changing bets based on results, go to random.org and come up with a sequence of bet changes ahead of time. Regardless of what came, luck will be a factor. If you want to play this way giving up a royal bonus, results will be atypical and keep doing it if it gives you peace.
It's funny though. My first jackpot was on a slot called Super 8 race. First played max(which was necessary for the progressive), had two bonuses winning $400. Got scared to lose, went elsewhere and kicked some more ass, came back and didn't feel lucky losing right off the bat. Decided to try single coining awhile, got a little scared I was going to miss the fruit pot, went back to max and hit the jackpot. As dumb as it was, I would never stay with the machine on a losing streak and would have lost hundreds on max with no more bonuses(assuming the same results short coining), and I wouldn't have gotten it. Still I was glad to lower bets, something not always allowed anymore.
Yet, intuition, the problem with intuition is it is just a fantasy. Intuition is an adult still playing make believe like a kid does. Pretend there is a pattern, be ready for the real pattern of randomness to bring you to your knees. It's easy to believe in nonsense as fact when luck is in your favor and bad luck is being tamed by low bets, but when you're at the wrong bet at the wrong time, it's going to hurt. Truth is you're probably playing above your comfort level and should either consider dropping stakes or doing something else.
It's funny though. My first jackpot was on a slot called Super 8 race. First played max(which was necessary for the progressive), had two bonuses winning $400. Got scared to lose, went elsewhere and kicked some more ass, came back and didn't feel lucky losing right off the bat. Decided to try single coining awhile, got a little scared I was going to miss the fruit pot, went back to max and hit the jackpot. As dumb as it was, I would never stay with the machine on a losing streak and would have lost hundreds on max with no more bonuses(assuming the same results short coining), and I wouldn't have gotten it. Still I was glad to lower bets, something not always allowed anymore.
Yet, intuition, the problem with intuition is it is just a fantasy. Intuition is an adult still playing make believe like a kid does. Pretend there is a pattern, be ready for the real pattern of randomness to bring you to your knees. It's easy to believe in nonsense as fact when luck is in your favor and bad luck is being tamed by low bets, but when you're at the wrong bet at the wrong time, it's going to hurt. Truth is you're probably playing above your comfort level and should either consider dropping stakes or doing something else.
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billryan
- Video Poker Master
- Posts: 4422
- Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 1:20 pm
You asked for evidence. You were given it. If you choose not to accept it, it's okay. You'll have company here.
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billryan
- Video Poker Master
- Posts: 4422
- Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 1:20 pm
P.S. So what's in it for the casino to dial back the mystery "house wins" meter? Answer: Guys like me who, while
winning $25K in jackpots in 2016, was still a net loser to the tune of $21K. That's according to the tax statement received from the casino.
Casinos don't issue tax statements. They issue Won Loss statements which are generally very inaccurate. They are not official and the IRS doesn't accept them in general.
What do your records show you lost?
Let me guess, you don't keep any.
You really need to forget everything you think you know.
winning $25K in jackpots in 2016, was still a net loser to the tune of $21K. That's according to the tax statement received from the casino.
Casinos don't issue tax statements. They issue Won Loss statements which are generally very inaccurate. They are not official and the IRS doesn't accept them in general.
What do your records show you lost?
Let me guess, you don't keep any.
You really need to forget everything you think you know.
