Hello Again...and some Bob Dancer clarity

[DaBurglar]

This forum, and website, is awesome, in many ways and for many reasons....it really is.   It is really idiotic and highly suspicious for any individual, or any group of individuals. to try and stifle or remove the voice of others unless it GROSSLY violates the rules of the forum.  Passive-aggressive approaches to this objective like  "Unless Person A ceases & desists from posting, then I (Person B) will NOT post here" are in this category.....I will never deny or dispute Bob Dancer knows just about everything there is to know (or worth knowing) about Video Poker and (by extension) Casino gambling in general, and I always give consideration to everything he states and posts (which is why I can now state and post what I am about to share...)There is a whole panopoly of elements and principles and actions which go into being an "Advantage Player" (i.e. the type of player Bob Dancer exhorts others to be)  BESIDES, or apart from or in addition to, the actual video poker play/results and RNG/randomness elements....a LOT MORE.   In fact, Bob almost assumes that a "proper" VP player will automatically assess and choose only the best paytables, and will PLAY the specific game selected with perfect mathematically correct strategy.  Bob has tried, with varying measures of success and consistency, to communicate this to the public, but it does not seem to stick....in a very abbreviated form, here are some of the elements/principles/things which are essential to doing things Bob Dancer's way or in the way he feels video poker should be played:-- Choosing and staying on top of ALL the available promotions, giveaways, "freebies", comps, etc. that are out there for Video Poker & Casino players.   This means joining the right clubs, analyzing and choosing the best places to play at any given moment and time, and putting forth the effort needed to do this consistently and correctly (which may mean setting up spreadsheets or other tools to aid in tracking and analyzing all these elements.)   Most people, the VAST majority of people, do not, cannot or simply will not do this.....-- A VP player must commit to having and maintaining the proper Bankroll and ONLY play games which advertise or offer the highest return, when taking EVERYTHING into consideration.....in simplest terms, to offer but ONE possible example, a player MIGHT choose to play a game that has a lousy paytable (say 97%), but because there happens to be a specific or special PROMOTION/Giveaway attached to playing it, or to playing in general at the casino in which the lousy paytable exists, the overall opportunity now becomes worthwhile (i.e. pushes the potential return on the game well past 100%.)  You only know or discover this if you do things Bob's way by working.....W O R K I N G .... at it day after day after week after month, etc.    You see the point here.....-- By extension, if a vp player WORKS at doing these things and only plays when and where they have sufficient advantage, then they will not spend anytime or resources or effort at playing when & where they DO NOT have sufficient advantage.....in other words, in Bob's mind, or indeed, in Bob's Universe, there is none of this "playing for the hell of it", "playing to kill time", "playing because THIS is the only game available", etc  In Bob's world, the only way, or reason, to play VP is the RIGHT way, to maximize return .... In Bob's world, "Fun" is directly associated with winning (or profiting), and the notion of playing less than Max Coin conflicts with just about every principle or element mentioned thus far.   Simply put, in no uncertain terms (and assuming ALL Paytables treat maximum Royal Flush payouts as 4000 to 1), playing VP at less than Max Coin is the gravest, dumbest, most absurd mistake anyone can make.    The immutable irrefutable truth is this:  If you cannot afford to play at maximum coin at a certain denomination (say $1), then you MUST.....MUST....drop down to a lower denomination (25 cents or even 5 cents) and play maximum coin there.  There are numerous other points and principles to playing Bob's way as an Advantage Player ("AP"), but I'm simply trying to illustrate here that there is so much more involved, according to Bob, besides simply focusing upon the "Randomness of gameplay results, the RNG, or mere luck...."   To be successful, you must WORK at it, and this work involves quite a bit of activity and effort OUTSIDE of and apart from actually being in the casino and on a actual VP game machine!     However, there is one last thing that goes into being like Bob Dancer, or doing things his way or as an AP, and this is the crucial, critical point that just about everyone misses, and which I personally hold out as a reason why I myself would ultimately refrain from doing things Bob's way:   A while back in a post here on this forum, Bob admitted, either in a moment of excessive candor, openness or plain ol' "honesty", that despite all his activity and effort as a teacher/mentor/guru/expert of Video Poker and all his various activity and tools that he uses to share and teach the general public into becoming one of his "disciples", there are certain  INSIDER SECRETS and elements that he absolutely does NOT SHARE with everyone else, and only a select few people according to Bob know and utilize these INSIDER elements!    This last point pretty much is one big huge disclaimer on the whole issue;  While I would never deny the mathematical or fiscal soundness of what Bob preaches in general, his ABSOLUTE uncompromising stance on things (i.e. his demand to stifle Florida Phil's ongoing "single coin/It's all just plain old luck" crusade) and his inability to co-exist with conflicting or different viewpoints is extremely hypocritical, and illogical even, given the issue in general and specifically given his statement/viewpoint noted above.   I personally wish Bob would continue to post here and share all that he has and wants to share, but I also wish he would do so with more tolerance and basic decent respect for other views and for other peoples' feelings.   At the very least, why can't he simply ignore the conflicting viewpoints he now gets so bent out of shape over?    It is a valid question to ask Bob:  If indeed Florida Phil's posts are a bunch of baloney (and I personally agree;  while I have no issue personally with FP and think he's a nice guy, I do think a lot of what he states is bunk), then WHY get so PO'd about it and refuse to post anything about anything to anyone?   Again, not logical......That's all for now, but there is indeed so much more that can be said about this whole issue.....

[billryan]

Anyone with a fifth grade understanding of math understands playing a .25 cent game at 99.54% is much better than playing a $1.00 game at 97%.
I don't understand how this is even an issue.

[onemoretry]

I believe that the INSIDER SECRETS are nothing particularly mysterious, rather, they are the product of the hard work previously mentioned.

All in all, though, a pretty good post.

[FAA]

Gives new meaning to Tina Turner's mega hit Private Dancer. Just one verse:You keep your mind on the money Keeping your eyes on the wall.

[FAA]

playing a .25 cent game at 99.54% is much better than playing a $1.00 game at 97%.-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Yes, I prefer 99.54% on max coin quarter, rather than single/double/triple coin it on dollars risking a 1.98% tied up with the RF hand. But I have a dilemma when I sense the hot cycle brewing. You just know. I switch to dollars, but lack the bankroll for consistent $5 bets. So I go cheap, but still acquire more cash in that window than if I stuck to quarters. If no RF occurrs, I'm happy. But that's suboptimal, as you describe. I tend to compromise, bumping to fifty and getting in a lot of max betting at that level.

[FloridaPhil]

I never once said playing single coin was more profitable than playing max coins.  I also never said playing a 97% game was better than playing a positive game.   All of these statements attributed to me are false. All I ever said was playing single coin quarters allows a player on a budget to play longer with the same money.  Does anyone dispute this?I did say I played single coin CS for two years and came out ahead.  I also said I made my profit from a few lucky pot shots that had nothing to do with my single coin play other than limiting my losses.These concoctions are products of people attempting to discredit my statements.   When Bob Dancer talks about making money playing video poker he includes promotions, raffles and anything else he can make a buck on.  I do not consider that video poker profit.  My statements are about the game and what happens when you sit in front of a machine.   Small time recreational players rarely get comps valuable enough to turn a game positve and that's all I am concerned about.

[billryan]

I'm pretty sure I spent less time finding the right games and clubs to join then DB spent typing out his post
I'm not sure how hard it is to look at a website and see which club has the best new benefits, or how hard it is to
look at a calendar and see which casino has a promo on a certain day. After awhile, it becomes rote.
Monday, play A for a free meal with $500 coin in, Tuesday, play B for $20 free play with $1000 in., Weds, pick up free play T C and head to D for something else.
It's not like I do it every day, but I know what is available every day.
Deciding to play a casino on a Monday for the hell of it, when playing it on Tuesday gives a much better benefit is just lazy, in my mind. Not the way of anyone aspiring to be an AP. Perhaps if you want to settle for being an FP, it's good enough. Lord knows we need more FPs to help fatten the lambs.

[billryan]

Here is Phil posting in a forum he said he would not post in, and he wonders why people call him a liar.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=BillRyan]Lord knows we need more FPs to help fatten the lambs.[/quote]I am happy to oblige you.  I don't care if I ever make a dime playing video poker.  That's not why I play the game.  When will you guys get that through your heads?  I will stop posting here when people stop addressing me by name.

[pokerforme]

Can't happen soon enough it seems.