The myth of playing 5 coins in video poker.

[Vman96]

You could just play a lower denomination at max bet. I don't know but are the pay tables for dimes and nickel's worse than quarter's usually?

It depends on the casino. There are cases where you are better off betting 1 quarter vs. 5 nickels, or 1 dollar vs. 5 quarters. In terms of return anyway.



The goal is not to lose the least money per unit time - it is to lose the least money per dollar wagered.


Is it? Advantage players should want to win the most amount of money per unit time. At least I would.

And from a rec standpoint, if I'm entertained by losing 3 times less money per hour on poorer paying machines machines, what is wrong with that?

In my opinion, people should play the best games for the amounts they are looking to wager.

[markinca]

[QUOTE=markinca]

The goal is not to lose the least money per unit time - it is to lose the least money per dollar wagered.


Is it? Advantage players should want to win the most amount of money per unit time. At least I would.

And from a rec standpoint, if I'm entertained by losing 3 times less money per hour on poorer paying machines machines, what is wrong with that?

In my opinion, people should play the best games for the amounts they are looking to wager.

[/QUOTE]

From a rec standpoint, if you're entertained by taking dollar bills and throwing them into trash cans, then by all means, go for it.

My issue is players who claim that playing a 97% table is better than playing a 99% table simply because you lose less per hour given the same number of hands. That is flat out incorrect and a dangerous way to look at video poker or gambling in general. If you're a rec player and really do just want to lose less money per hour, then the solution should be to slow down your rate of play at max-coin, not playing short-coin.

Minimizing money lost per hour is just a byproduct of minimizing money lost per dollar wagered, and then minimizing the number of hands played.

As for AP play, if you're only looking at win rates per hour, you might overlook the fact that the reason you're making less at a game is because you don't know it as well, and thus you're making more mistakes and/or playing slower. If this were the case, then a smart player would practice until he had that game down pat, and then tried to maximize the number of hands he could play, which would then increase his per-hour rate.

So, on the flipside of rec play, maximizing money per hour is just a byproduct of maximizing money per dollar wagered, and then maximizing the number of hands played.

[WVRadar]

[QUOTE=WVRadar] Closely examine the payout table on the machine you are playing. For example my favorite machine at the local casino pays out the same whether you are playing 1 coin or 5. One coin on a Royal Flush pays 500 while 5 coins pays 2500 instead of the usual 4000.

Other then short paying the Royal, what makes it your favorite?[/QUOTE]

I seldom play maximum coin. I play strictkly for entertainment and am more interested in playing longer. The proportional payoff for Royals still gives me a chance for a little better payback than playing a machine that only pays extra for the Royal on 5 coins. That said, I can't remember the last time I hit a Royal Flush and have never had a Royal on the machine I am talking about.

The other reason I like this machine is that its paytable is the best in the casino.

[onemoretry]

Expected value is a gambling term. It is the expected result of a bet over the long run. For instance, the expected value of one dollar bet on a 9/6 video poker slot is $-0.01818 or 1.818 cent loss for every dollar bet. So over the long run every time you bet one dollar, you will lose 1.818, nearly 2 cents.   

Make sense ??? No, it doesn't.

I assume, when you refer to a 9/6 game, you are talking about plain-jane 9/6 jacks or better. The long term return of that game is 99.54%. Doesn't that translate to a loss of 0.46 cents per dollar bet not the 1.818 cents you cited?

P.S.
I typed and posted this reply before reading all of the recent posts from immediately above. It's a bit redundant - sorry.

[billryan]

[QUOTE=billryan] [QUOTE=WVRadar] Closely examine the payout table on the machine you are playing. For example my favorite machine at the local casino pays out the same whether you are playing 1 coin or 5. One coin on a Royal Flush pays 500 while 5 coins pays 2500 instead of the usual 4000.

Other then short paying the Royal, what makes it your favorite?[/QUOTE]

I seldom play maximum coin. I play strictkly for entertainment and am more interested in playing longer. The proportional payoff for Royals still gives me a chance for a little better payback than playing a machine that only pays extra for the Royal on 5 coins. That said, I can't remember the last time I hit a Royal Flush and have never had a Royal on the machine I am talking about.

The other reason I like this machine is that its paytable is the best in the casino.[/QUOTE]

If that's the best paytable in the casino,I'd suggest you find a new place to play, or not to play at all.
Yes, I practice what I preach. When I lived in NYC, there were two racinos within driving distance. I never stepped foot in the one, and went to the other twice, playing there once and the second time was to see a band.
When dis "playing for entertainment" become synonymous with playing badly?

[FAA]

That is a crappy pay table. Only a true blue short coiner would play it. Even I would turn my nose. Racinos and the VLT are anathema to me.

[rsactuary]

To make matters worse if you assume that you will not hit a Royal Flush (the odds against are 40,387 to 1) in your session, your expected losses for 1 coin and 5 coins are $0.88 and $4.42 respectively. this is faulty logic.

[WVRadar]

That is a crappy pay table. Only a true blue short coiner would play it. Even I would turn my nose. Racinos and the VLT are anathema to me.

All other machines in the casino (not Racino or a VLT) are 8/5 or 7/5. I play to maximize my entertainment time. I am playing for hours at a time while other players on the machines beside me put in twice as much money as I do and are done within 5 or 10 minutes. I do realize that other players regard my play as watching paint dry.

Finding a machine that pays the maximum would require at least a 3 hour drive for me - quite a long drive when you are just looking for entertainment.

[ajs1956]

Although I'm new to this forum I've been a member of VideoPoker.com for over 5 years and have played video poker for over 10. I've played over 3 million hands and have kept tight records for the past 8 years. A long time ago I did the math regarding betting max versus betting 1 coin.

First, I always bet max, the benefits greatly exceed the costs versus betting 1 coin. Second, the benefits of betting 5 versus 1 coin will be highly dependent on the comps you receive from the casino you regularly play at. I play at Seneca Niagara Casino on a weekly (or more) basis, strictly Bonus Poker.

I can't absolutely disagree with the conclusions of the initial poster. I think the mistake many of his critics are making is the assumption that the difference in the returns is about 2% (the royal difference). What the critics don't seem to account for is that "perfect strategy" is different when betting less than max. The most obvious differences are how to play a three card Royal. With max bet you almost always go for the royal. If betting less than max, you would hold a fourth suited card (go for the flush), a fourth card that gives you a chance for a straight, or a low pair. This changes the perfect play return when betting 1 coin to 97.932%, and not 97.18, as it seems everyone is assuming. So the difference in the return is closer to 1.2% and not 2%.

Here are the calculations I use for "my" casino, using a total bet of 500k if max, 100k if 1 coin:

Bet                        500K      100k
Return                     99.17%    97.932%
Loss(before free play)     $4150      $2068
Free Play                    570        275
Points to Free Play       1428.57    163.26
Loss before comps        2151.43    1629.73
Unlimited food/drink        yes       no
(two people)
Hotel Stays                 yes       no
Gift Cards                  yes       no
Gifts                      yes       no

Bottom line is that (at my casino with my bet amount) my initial loss on max bet is about $500 more than a 1 coin bet. However, I believe that the value of the comps, especially unlimited food/drink for 2 (something I easily take advantage of since I live only 15 minutes away) greatly exceed any savings from betting 1 coin. I would calculate that value to be easily $3000 annually (I won't go through the calculations).

Personally, I don't see the enjoyment or the benefit of a 1 coin bet.

[WVRadar]

Bottom line is that (at my casino with my bet amount) my initial loss on max bet is about $500 more than a 1 coin bet. However, I believe that the value of the comps, especially unlimited food/drink for 2 (something I easily take advantage of since I live only 15 minutes away) greatly exceed any savings from betting 1 coin. I would calculate that value to be easily $3000 annually (I won't go through the calculations).

Personally, I don't see the enjoyment or the benefit of a 1 coin bet.

[/QUOTE]

While I am never comped for anything else, I do get free drinks when I am playing the machines. The casino I go to is The Meadows in Washington, PA.