Shuffling Proms, 'same vs. different' for multi ga

[swivet2]

hello All;

I'm interested in knowledgable replies and comments to the following statements/questions. I am a long-time VP player; played literally millions of hands in the past 25 years. I have logged my play by machine number and denomination for the past 5+years. Below, I am strictly discussing Las Vegas Area VP.



Below are some statements of fact, and some questions. They may best be commented on by a machine collector of SW engineer, but I'm hoping for informed comments, rather than guesses.

Fact: Every modern VP machine has a chip (or more than one???) with some sort of shuffling algorithm.

Fact: On some multi-game machines (only older ones??) When a hand is over, if you change games or denominations, the last hand you just played REMAINS THE SAME on the screen no matter which game you choose. On some machines (newer??) it changes to the last hand played at that specific denomination and game.

I'm interested in verification of the two places above where I have placed question marks.

I know that Nevada gaming must APPROVE the various shuffling algorithms that are in play in each game.

Questions: (And let's stick with a 52 card deck for this )
WHY would there need to be VARIOUS shuffling algorithms (PROMs) to be approved? In fact, WHY doesn't the STATE OF NEVADA issue the randomizing dealing chip to ENSURE fairness?


I encourage intelligent comments, answers, and ideas.

I am convinced some machines behave differently from others.   If anyone cares to say they are all the same, I will be happy to fly to Las Vegas, and have a significant wager with you. The wager would be that I point you to a machine, and you play 1000 hands of game X, and I play 1000 hands of the identical game at a machine of my choice.   I realize 1000 hands is not significant, so, in theory if repeated several times, we should end up each winning this challenge roughly equally, correct? I will bet that we do not.

Please accept I am not taking shots at anyone here; I am merely saying I can point out machines that seem to CONSISTENTLY have LONG quad and 'high-payout' cycles compared to other machines (note the word CONSISTENTLY) or that have long gaps or no flush/boat/straight payouts that will KILL you in the short run. I want to know WHY there are various shuffling algorithms, when exactly ONE should do.

Thanks!

[Onenickelmiracl]

If you want intelligent answers go pay someone or ask a librarian.

[swivet2]

I doubt a librarian would know.

Who do you recommend I pay, Onenickel?

[paco13]

I don't have any answers but agree. It does seem to me that if all VP games are mandated to play the same and be based on play with an actual deck of cards and its probable outcomes 1 "chip" should be all that's needed.
You would think it would be more cost effective as well as much easier to regulate and/or enforce.
I am surprised more haven't joined this thread.   

[FloridaPhil]

A wager would be meaningless.  If the cards are truly selected at random, any and
all results could happen within any finite period of time.  There is no
way of knowing if the games are fair unless the game manufacturers
opened their vaults to open inspections including all source code.  This is never
going to happen.  As players, we are entitled to believe anything we
wish.  All I can say is "If you believe the games are not completely
fair and random and that matters to you, don't play them".   I personally consider VP to be a lottery, so it doesn't concern me.  

[buffalochips]

I'm just as sad as anyone [who used to be a serious 'advantage' vp and pokerplayer] to admit---I, also, play for fun now and far less than I used to.....I'm still confident that it's still a better game [albeit only slightly in some casinos] than lucky slots/keno....If you had played millions of hands of poker--before--you started vp, your insight into how cards are shuffled/dealt would be more greatly refined vs. merely noticing how many of one kind of valuable hand or other is lacking in your play....In fact, I blieve somone the other day said they don't just notice losing patterns--but also notice odd, if not ridiculous wins as well...I've all but completely quit playing outside Nevada...I've heard stories about that state as well....Good luck, have fun--don't play with the rent money......

[Vman96]

I don't have any answers but agree. It does seem to me that if all VP games are mandated to play the same and be based on play with an actual deck of cards and its probable outcomes 1 "chip" should be all that's needed.
You would think it would be more cost effective as well as much easier to regulate and/or enforce.
I am surprised more haven't joined this thread.   


Are Casino RNGs even hardware?

I am assuming forcing machine manufacturers to use a state mandated RNG algorithm is terribly inconvenient for gaming companies. And would be very inconvenient if all states didn't agree on the same algorithm.

[buffalochips]

At least it would make them publicly state for the record why there is a difference....and why they wouldn't want to be the same....

[paco13]

I quoted the word "chip" because that is what the OP called it. It sounds more like software to me.

[farc]

Ask Bob dancer