Quick Quads Strategy

[MikeA]

I got so bored today that I made one of the ill-begotten trips down to Oklahoma and played nickel 8/5 DDB.  Didn't take long to go through $100 either!  I don't know how many quad cycles I went through and only hit ONE.  It was low quads with a kicker for 800.  Even that didn't salvage the trip for me.We did stop at a gas station with slots and VP on the drive home and I plugged $20 into a nickel 9/6 DDB machine.  It was within the first couple of dozen spins that I hit quad 4's with a kicker for 800.  I was so pumped about hitting a quad that I cashed out and left the building!I did play some 100-play on the free side of the site here last night.  10,000 is a minimum to start out with on that game!  I did end up ahead for the session but it was a trip Aces hand that got me out of the hole.  I think I ended up with 14,000+ credits but most of the time, I was down around 4K or so.Really need those Quick Quads!

[Webman]

Moving this to the "Strategy" forum for everyone to take part in.

[shadowman]

Post unable to migrate

[MikeA]

Did you come up with "variance" on TDP QQ Shadowman?

[shadowman]

No, I didn't. However, looking as the payback for FH/FL is a little lower than DDB I would estimate the variance is slightly higher. It depends on how much that is offset by not needing kickers.

[MikeA]

Just at a glance, it looked to me as though the strategy was a little more conservative which would indicate to me that the variance might be a little lower than DDB.  Aces are Aces...no kickers involved so you hold the unmatched face with the Ace.  I guess that's the big difference.  But as with DDB, you are going for broke with 3oK and low pairs with half QQ cards (except 2's with a pair of 4's.)  Possibly I've been lucky on TBP.  Certainly I haven't played enough to draw and conclusions, but it seems as though I am maintaining a closer balance to "zero" than with DDB.  Oh, I hit a double 600 QQ to bounce me up over 1,000, but other than that, I was maintaining somewhere around -250 to +250 pretty steady with the draws.  That would be a weak indication of lower variance.Will probably get a better feel for it as time goes on.I will be surprised if a new release of VPW doesn't come out with QQ's and maybe "Wild Thang" as game foundations.  I'd like to see that happen without having to buy a complete game at retail price.  VPW is one of those packages of software that lends itself very well to "upgrade" options.

[New2vp]

Hey Mike,
 

From Webman's post of statistics (EV and contribution) on 08 Dec 2007 at 10:17am, you can infer the per-coin variance for Quick Quads, though there wasn’t enough precision listed to assure that the last decimal couple places below are perfectly accurate.  I know from reading your posts that you like to compare variances of games.  I like to look at the standard deviation instead since it is in the same units as expected value.  These are the numbers you were interested in (if Webman's numbers and my inferences are correct):
 
                                    Variance           Std.Dev.
Jacks or Better             21.7783           4.6667
Bonus Poker                23.5546           4.8533
Double Bonus              29.9509           5.4727
Double Double Bonus  41.6828           6.4562
Triple Bonus Plus         43.1762           6.5709
Triple Double Bonus     80.1111           8.9505

[MikeA]

That is good info (var=dev^2 if I remember correctly) so really, they are speaking the same lingo.However, these stats are for results of play aren't they?  At that time, we only had "strategy" worked out for DDB and that only partially though pretty close to complete.  The stats on TBP may change now that the strategy for the game was posted.  And, of course, if people take the time to work on it.Yet, from the stats you relisted, it looks like a VERY close race between DDB and TBP in the standard deviation (or variance) factor.  With that in mind, the additional ER that TBP has over DDB might make it a better choice for someone planning on really getting into this QQ game.Hey Mike,
 

From Webman's post of statistics (EV and contribution) on 08 Dec 2007 at 10:17am, you can infer the per-coin variance for Quick Quads, though there wasn’t enough precision listed to assure that the last decimal couple places below are perfectly accurate.  I know from reading your posts that you like to compare variances of games.  I like to look at the standard deviation instead since it is in the same units as expected value.  These are the numbers you were interested in (if Webman's numbers and my inferences are correct):
 
                                    Variance           Std.Dev.
Jacks or Better             21.7783           4.6667
Bonus Poker                23.5546           4.8533
Double Bonus              29.9509           5.4727
Double Double Bonus  41.6828           6.4562
Triple Bonus Plus         43.1762           6.5709
Triple Double Bonus     80.1111           8.9505

[Webman]

MikeA, those stats that I posted were not the result of play on this site that would be affected by a lack of early knowledge. They were dropped on my desk by the big brains behind the scenes and should reflect the best mathematical output of the game.

[shadowman]

Those variances look like what I would expect. I plan to add the calculation to my program but it looks like there's no hurry.