Progressive VP as competition: should you "go for

[EDC1977]

  Hey Mike,played something similar at Terribles.Play from1-100 hands with 5 coin max RF pays 4000 coins 1-100 hands with max bet!
    Progressive jackpots are always nice and tempting but don't payout that often and paytables are much weaker than common sense says to play!Better to hit the Jumbo at Stations than a progressive anyways!

[MikeA]

Ed,    The machine I had in mind when mentioning that is found at an Indian Casino in Oklahoma called Native Lights.  They only had one machine in that configuration.  I think the game I played on it was 96 DB.  It seemed to pay off about in line with what a normal 9/6 single line DB machine would do.  Good way to kill time while my wife got her fix on the slots!The alternative was 8/5 JOB or a really weak DW game.

[shadowman]

I always figured the 10 and 20 coin machines were put there to sucker short coiners. Lot's of people believe that higher denom VP machines pay off better, just like slot machines. They don't know it's all controlled by the paytable. I see lot's of these players feeding a 10 coin dollar machine with one coin (and even 5 coins) when there's an equivalent lower denom machine real close that would give them the bonus for the RF. I've seen many a short coin royal on them too.
 
Eduardo, you are correct. A 10 coin .25 machine is exactly equivalent to a 5 coin .50 machine with the same paytable. In fact, I even refer to both of them as 50 centers when I talk about them.

[Minn. Fatz]

jm002546, the point of the OP is that playing "against" any reasonable number of "opponents" at a bank of progressive VP machines doesn't complicate matters. You should stick with an optimum strategy (provided you have the proper faith in advantage play of course ) without worrying that you need to chase that Royal in order to hit it before one of the other people at your bank of machines does, as it's much more likely you'll get a better draw on the next hand than it is that any of them will hit a Royal before then. Even assuming they throw almost any other combination in order to draw to Royals.
 
shadow, I have a somewhat easier method of calculating the break-even point for progressive strategy changes around here somewheres that I will post as soon as I can dig it up. You still need the hand analyzer from any VP training program but with that and a calculator you should be able to find the right number without trial and error.
 
I became interested in progressives because they may offer one chance for a positive return in states like my own where the tribal compact limits expected returns on VP to, in Minn.'s case, 98 percent. (OEJ full pay is one other of course.) I agree they do raise variance, probably dramatically.
 
The main issue I see with progressives is the need to actually hit the higher RF in order to realize the higher expected return from it. Like any other game you wouldn't have to hit it right away, just eventually. That was the genesis of the question about whether you should chase the RF, given that there are usually others playing the same "game."
 
While theoretically at least you will eventually get the higher return, whether you will do so in practice will depend on the availability of suitable progressives at the places you play and, of course, your risk of ruin, which is going to be higher for a progressive with a higher variance.

[shadowman]

A calculator will do it once you know the difference between the RF payout and what it needs to be to overtake whatever hold is highest. I posted the trail and error method because it requires people to use the tool. In the long run that will be more valuable. In fact, it is how I started using the analyze hand tool in the first place.

[ginxxxx]

All these calculations...... sounds like math to me.  I believe the progressive jackpot would have to be way up there to get me to do that much math.  I very impressed with all you guys' math abilities, but don't want to try it.  I just want to play good pay VP, win, and play some more.

[EDC1977]

  Hey Mike: the machine I was playing had a button for 1-5 hands and another for 5-100 hands.It was cool because it was all based on a single line paytable. It was pennies though it was fun, 25 hands, max coin, only$1.25 deal/draw? Very manageable and snuck in a few SF's and many quads but no RF's  It was a good way to play 9/6 WHA and stay within budget limits(5coin quarters) Shadowman,. a correct observation.I too have seen people play single coin high denom. machines although I've yet to see a RF on one coin. My buddy did it on .50 c machine and hit for the RF, I could only shake my head and mind my own business.

[MikeA]

I saw that happen once (RF on 1-coin).  There were two of us sitting at the Optimum machines at Texas Station a couple of years ago.  We were chatting away while pounding the buttons at probably around 700 HPM.  I noticed that she was playing 5-coin for $1.  She kept poking c-notes into the machine on DDB 10/6.  After a while, I hear her scream "Agh S#it!"  I look over and see the Royal and started to congratulate her until I saw the 1-coin bet she'd made.  She had been down to her last $100 and way playing 1-coin instead of switching to $.25 and playing 5-coin.  Felt bad for her.  I think she was just steamed about having lost so much.  She was trying to win enough to pay her rent!

[EDC1977]

  Sadly, she no problem poking those benjamins into the paper money slot instead of the envelope marked rent due.I've never met anyone trying to get ahead for whatever necessities by gaming but read several stories about them. My other half wants to learn VP so I told her to play with the Zamzow software I used to practice on. She has no problem playing 1 coin on a 5 coin max machine. OK for now but wait itl she hits!