How big is the cheating? (RNG spinoff)

[OTABILL]

The issue regarding regulation of Tribal casinos and VP results expressed by Tech, Davidearl and Wildman are Michigan-specific. It would be nice if those playing in Tribal casinos in other states have had similar experiences or concerns. I don't play very much lately. In the past, I have not had any concerns here in AZ. As I noted previously in this thread, the State of Arizona has regulatory authority over Tribal casinos. One other notable fact, there are 5 tribes in metro Phoenix running casinos competing with one another. Other tribal casinos are within 2 your driving time. That could also factor be relevant.

[dinghy]

dinghy, do vegas players ever talk about contacting regulators for info. ? Any reports available?

Usually afaik it would be a contact for help/intervention in a dispute. For a backed-off AP, that could involve confiscation of points, for example.

The usual statistical reports are posted at gaming.nv.gov. Numbers are always grouped by county or area of town. You won't find payback info for individual casinos.

I haven't seen reports related to fairness testing, although the rulebook is very detailed and presumably rigorous.

[asteroid]

Here is some non-random footage - in this case biased towards the player (losing high roller card in tournament). I think what has happened is that IGT Powerdeals (TM) tournament software has made it into the wild at some Indian Casinos. IMHO, it would be delusional to think the footage linked below is random.
https://i.imgur.com/Wl2XFZk.mp4

[olds442jetaway]

I still see a couple of hit and run Ultimate X players at Mohegan Sun. Funny though, I have never seen them hit anything if the machine is next to me. Mostly what people leave behind nowadays are 2x. Exceptions I’m sure.

[kmartinusa]

I live in Oklahoma and have visited many of the casinos across the state. I’ve played millions of hands in my lifetime, mostly land based but in the days of online casinos I played quite a bit there too. Every casino in OK is an indian casino.

To my point- I’ve played in a number of casinos in Oklahoma over the years and I’m convinced that video poker machines are not always the same. Some of the casinos seem to have the same machines you find anywhere and they all look the same, sound the same, no signs or anything that indicates that they’re bingo based or whatever, but I’m convinced…without any hard evidence…that some of these machines have something other than a true RNG running in the background. I just get WAY too many AAAxx or four to a royal or 222XX dealt to me and FAR too few 4oak or RF’s happen.

I fully understand that in order to lend credibility to my belief I’d need to play a LOT of hands and I have played a bunch, probably not nearly enough to make a solid mathematical case with any real validity but I’m convinced *something* isn’t right and I can’t quite work out how it works.

I’m generally hesitant to believing a bunch of the stuff that some believe, for example I’ve got relatives who really believe that “they” are watching us, picking winners and losers and manipulating the machines from some control room or something. There are a lot of variations of these beliefs out there and none are real but I am convinced that some of the Indian casinos are running some sort of process in their VP machines designed to keep players playing longer, with far too many “almost got it’s”.

I understand that I’m not really lending any credibility to my case outside of 30yrs of playing, and no evidence to the discussion either, but I just won’t play video poker in a number of casinos in Oklahoma. I believe that some of the casinos here run the same games as we’d see in any casino but I am convinced that others have something else going on. Just by way of example, Winstar seems normal, the Apache Casino in Lawton was very different. As I described, a lot of “almost” and not nearly enough hits. It’s been a few years but I think I remember thinking that there were too many pat hands dealt, all on the lower end.

I wish I could figure it out, I wish I could find an explanation or evidence that describes what is happening but I’ve dug and dug over the years and just haven’t ever found an explanation of what might be going on and I’d bet a LOT that there is something going on that’s very different from regular state regulated casinos, I just don’t know what it is.

[onemoretry]

..... but I’m convinced…without any hard evidence..

Hmm - hardly a "convincing" argument.

[dinghy]

I fully understand that in order to lend credibility to my belief I’d need to play a LOT of hands

That depends entirely on what you're testing for. If you can identify a routine occurrence that's out of whack, you don't need a huge test sample.

It’s been a few years but I think I remember thinking that there were too many pat hands dealt, all on the lower end.

High pairs should be dealt at 13% frequency. I would venture to say 1000 hands at 20% observed frequency would be adequate evidence of riggage. Odds against this happening on a fair machine are well into the multi-millions if my math is correct. My math is rusty because rarely does anyone provide hard data in these threads.

[olds442jetaway]

One thing I will never get used to is over 600,000 hands twice ( mostly single line ) on various draw poker games without a Royal at Mohegan Sun. I can’t even imagine the probability of that happening. Speaking of which, I am over 100,000 hands again without a Royal. This time about 30 percent of the hands were multi line.

[dinghy]

One thing I will never get used to is over 600,000 hands twice ( mostly single line ) on various draw poker games without a Royal at Mohegan Sun. I can’t even imagine the probability of that happening.

If we assume 40k for a royal cycle, that would be 15 cycles or 2¹⁵, or 1 in 32768 imo. Not quite impossible, but very unlikely. I already conceded Mohegan is rigged.

[Tedlark]

One thing I will never get used to is over 600,000 hands twice ( mostly single line ) on various draw poker games without a Royal at Mohegan Sun. I can’t even imagine the probability of that happening.

If we assume 40k for a royal cycle, that would be 15 cycles or 2¹⁵, or 1 in 32768 imo. Not quite impossible, but very unlikely. I already conceded Mohegan is rigged.

Just for clarity, olds - are you saying that this was on the same machine, or multiple machines?