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super times pay
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stephmo
- Senior Member
- Posts: 101
- Joined: Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:52 pm
Re: super times pay
In order to play those kind of stakes, you must have a pretty big bank roll. What has been your experience with STP? How much would you put into a machine before you stopped, and from your play, how long does it take an STP machine to hit? I love playing STP quarters at the Borgata, and the payouts are great , but the allure of $$$-Wow!
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shadowman
- Video Poker Master
- Posts: 3587
- Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:42 pm
In order to play those kind of stakes, you must have a pretty big bank roll. What has been your experience with STP? How much would you put into a machine before you stopped, and from your play, how long does it take an STP machine to hit? I love playing STP quarters at the Borgata, and the payouts are great , but the allure of $$$-Wow!
Class III VP machines (and slot machines for that matter) are NEVER ready "to hit". That is a common myth! I suggest you read over the thread on RNGs. Your results are determined by a random number generator and your choice of cards to hold. Each hand is independent of every other hand. It doesn't matter if a machine just had a RF or not. I've hit 20 quads in an hour and none in many hours. I've had RFs 100 hands apart on the same machine and it's taken over 200K hands between them on lots and lots of machines.
Finally, your question about "stakes" is a good one. I'll assume this question relates to overall bankroll and not a trip bankroll since that gets into how much you play on a trip. Far too many gamblers play way over their bankroll and eventually get into trouble (even with a few big wins under their belt). One "rule of thumb" is you should have 3-10 RFs worth of bankroll to start a game (3K-10K for quarters). The lower the variance (for example, Jacks or Better), the fewer RFs. The better the payback, the fewer RFs as well. Of course, if the game is a net loser (<100% payback with comps and perks), then you will eventually lose over time. However, you can calculate an expected loss rate to determine whether a play is worth it for the entertainment value.
Class III VP machines (and slot machines for that matter) are NEVER ready "to hit". That is a common myth! I suggest you read over the thread on RNGs. Your results are determined by a random number generator and your choice of cards to hold. Each hand is independent of every other hand. It doesn't matter if a machine just had a RF or not. I've hit 20 quads in an hour and none in many hours. I've had RFs 100 hands apart on the same machine and it's taken over 200K hands between them on lots and lots of machines.
Finally, your question about "stakes" is a good one. I'll assume this question relates to overall bankroll and not a trip bankroll since that gets into how much you play on a trip. Far too many gamblers play way over their bankroll and eventually get into trouble (even with a few big wins under their belt). One "rule of thumb" is you should have 3-10 RFs worth of bankroll to start a game (3K-10K for quarters). The lower the variance (for example, Jacks or Better), the fewer RFs. The better the payback, the fewer RFs as well. Of course, if the game is a net loser (<100% payback with comps and perks), then you will eventually lose over time. However, you can calculate an expected loss rate to determine whether a play is worth it for the entertainment value.
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rascal
- VP Veteran
- Posts: 685
- Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 12:25 am
Stephmo, I am embarrassed to say this -- but that $800 in the STP machine that night was just loose change. To get a $73K (net) payoff on an $800 bankroll investment is not very realistic. I generally have a bankroll of 4 times 400 credits of the highest denom I plan to pay. For example, if I am going to play DDB $5 denom I would need to have a bankroll of $8K. I would not necessarily use all $8K, but it would be available. If at any time during the session I was up 10% I would generally quit. By up 10%, I mean if remaining bankroll plus credits = $8800, time to go. Prorate it up or down for other denoms: $2 (my most common denom) = bankroll requirement of $3200 and win goal of $320 ($3520). 10% may not seem like much, but when you factor in the frequent but unplanned big hits well beyond 10% (and, unfortunately, the routine tragic losses) it is a good safe goal.
As far as your question about STP, I regard it like I regard a slot machine. I would not sit down and play it for a long time or invest a lot of money into it --- it is very volatile. However, on a regular basis I give it a whirl just to see if fortune is smiling. You have three random factors instead of one, and this makes STP the most volatile machine in the casino IMHO. Random #1 is the hand dealt; random #2 is multiplier yes or no; and random #3 is if the multiplier is dealt, what is it?
You are talking about a machine with a huge potential payoff exposure for the casino --- yet, despite this exposure, casinos not only use these machines, but frequently promote them and give them prime position. This tells me that the casino is making some serious money off of them; they are not just a draw.
I would advise anyone to make STP a small part of a casino session and to have, for the most part, one single-hand game such as DB, DDB, or DWBP that the player excels at due to many hours of at-home practice. These three games have made me much, much more money than I have ever made at STP if I subtract that one unexpected, unprojected jackpot.
As far as your question about STP, I regard it like I regard a slot machine. I would not sit down and play it for a long time or invest a lot of money into it --- it is very volatile. However, on a regular basis I give it a whirl just to see if fortune is smiling. You have three random factors instead of one, and this makes STP the most volatile machine in the casino IMHO. Random #1 is the hand dealt; random #2 is multiplier yes or no; and random #3 is if the multiplier is dealt, what is it?
You are talking about a machine with a huge potential payoff exposure for the casino --- yet, despite this exposure, casinos not only use these machines, but frequently promote them and give them prime position. This tells me that the casino is making some serious money off of them; they are not just a draw.
I would advise anyone to make STP a small part of a casino session and to have, for the most part, one single-hand game such as DB, DDB, or DWBP that the player excels at due to many hours of at-home practice. These three games have made me much, much more money than I have ever made at STP if I subtract that one unexpected, unprojected jackpot.
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JHock12
- Forum Regular
- Posts: 89
- Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 4:28 pm
The STP machines at Showboat AC are located basically in the middle of the casino floor, and even during the week they are pretty packed. One thing I have noticed in watching(and waiting)is that a lot of the players play deuces wild. As I stated in a previous post, I find Deuces to be a lot of fun, but the return can't possibly be as lucrative as DDB or DB-am I wrong about this? I'm asking because I don't know.
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shadowman
- Video Poker Master
- Posts: 3587
- Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:42 pm
As I stated in a previous post, I find Deuces to be a lot of fun, but the return can't possibly be as lucrative as DDB or DB-am I wrong about this? I'm asking because I don't know.
It all depends on the pay table. As you get more experienced you will understand that there are many variations of EVERY game and they all pay back different amounts and require adjustments to play strategies.
If you want someone to compare games for you, you will need to provide both pay tables.
It all depends on the pay table. As you get more experienced you will understand that there are many variations of EVERY game and they all pay back different amounts and require adjustments to play strategies.
If you want someone to compare games for you, you will need to provide both pay tables.
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BOOPSAHOY
- Video Poker Master
- Posts: 1625
- Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:20 pm
JHock-I play both DDB 3 line STP and DW 5 line and I think I can last as long moneywise on DW as the DDB even though its costing me more every deal.
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njmike37
- Senior Member
- Posts: 158
- Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2006 12:51 pm
The STP machines at Showboat AC are located basically in the middle of the casino floor, and even during the week they are pretty packed. One thing I have noticed in watching(and waiting)is that a lot of the players play deuces wild. As I stated in a previous post, I find Deuces to be a lot of fun, but the return can't possibly be as lucrative as DDB or DB-am I wrong about this? I'm asking because I don't know.
JHock, my experience has been pretty much the same as Boopsahoy's. I like DDB for its big quad hits, so I do play that more than DW. However, I usually last longer in DW with the same amount of bankroll than I do in DDB. You tend to get more winners to "keep you going.." giving you more chances at some nice hits like the 4 deuces. I also noticed that when the multiplier came up, I had a higher rate of success getting winners on the DW game versus the DDB.
Guess it all depends on what you're looking for. The DDB has the higher mid-upper range payouts for the quads, quads w/kicker, etc.. so if you do hit one, you're golden, but if you're looking to last a longer time, DW would probably be your better bet.
Mike
JHock, my experience has been pretty much the same as Boopsahoy's. I like DDB for its big quad hits, so I do play that more than DW. However, I usually last longer in DW with the same amount of bankroll than I do in DDB. You tend to get more winners to "keep you going.." giving you more chances at some nice hits like the 4 deuces. I also noticed that when the multiplier came up, I had a higher rate of success getting winners on the DW game versus the DDB.
Guess it all depends on what you're looking for. The DDB has the higher mid-upper range payouts for the quads, quads w/kicker, etc.. so if you do hit one, you're golden, but if you're looking to last a longer time, DW would probably be your better bet.
Mike
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ASDFADSF
- Forum Newbie
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2009 4:23 pm
I've been playing super times here in vegas for 3 years now. I was always told to play triple or five hand. Is there better odds going for the 10play?
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damule
- VP Veteran
- Posts: 551
- Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2008 4:59 pm
I've been playing super times here in vegas for 3 years now. I was always told to play triple or five hand. Is there better odds going for the 10play?
The odds all depend on the pay table. Where I usually play the pay table is better for dimes than for quarters, so that's what I play. And the dimes are 10-play where the quarters are 3 or 5 play, go figure. BTW, STP DDB 10-play is my favorite game. I've been dealt some incredible hands over the years and have had some nice draws with multipliers attached. I've posted some pics in VP Stories titled Big Hits This Week, check it out. If one was to play quarter, 10-play and was dealt a Royal with a 10 x multiplier that's $100,000. It's quite a rare event, but possible. On the other hand though, as Rascal said, to risk that kind of exposue the casinos must be raking in huge bucks with these games...we call that volitility.
The odds all depend on the pay table. Where I usually play the pay table is better for dimes than for quarters, so that's what I play. And the dimes are 10-play where the quarters are 3 or 5 play, go figure. BTW, STP DDB 10-play is my favorite game. I've been dealt some incredible hands over the years and have had some nice draws with multipliers attached. I've posted some pics in VP Stories titled Big Hits This Week, check it out. If one was to play quarter, 10-play and was dealt a Royal with a 10 x multiplier that's $100,000. It's quite a rare event, but possible. On the other hand though, as Rascal said, to risk that kind of exposue the casinos must be raking in huge bucks with these games...we call that volitility.
