Quick Quads

[New2vp]

I know you often play a better game, but a long time ago, I tried putting some rules together for playing the "full-pay" game (99.98% EV).  When I ran into the example of 85 suited (diamonds or clubs with no one-eyed jacks), after working on it for an hour or so, I gave up.  It is often played since the payoff and likelihood for straight flushes are so high in OEJs.There are many situations when you play other 2-card SFs, depending on their suit, singletons--especially Ts or 6s of diamonds or clubs, and quite a few times that it's appropriate to draw 5 new cards.Even with a strategy all written out, it is beyond my comprehension how someone might be able to play nearly perfectly even with the 10+-page strategy chart in front of them if you were going to try to obey all penalty-card rules.I understand what you said about still being able to play close enough to computer-perfect EV by ignoring many of the borderline situations.  Actually knowing when to play 85 d/c or not is not worth many dollars (or should I say cents) over the long run.

[shadowman]

I know you often play a better game, but a long time ago, I tried putting some rules together for playing the "full-pay" game (99.98% EV).  When I ran into the example of 85 suited (diamonds or clubs with no one-eyed jacks), after working on it for an hour or so, I gave up.  It is often played since the payoff and likelihood for straight flushes are so high in OEJs.

There are many situations when you play other 2-card SFs, depending on their suit, singletons--especially Ts or 6s of diamonds or clubs, and quite a few times that it's appropriate to draw 5 new cards.

Even with a strategy all written out, it is beyond my comprehension how someone might be able to play nearly perfectly even with the 10+-page strategy chart in front of them if you were going to try to obey all penalty-card rules.

I understand what you said about still being able to play close enough to computer-perfect EV by ignoring many of the borderline situations.  Actually knowing when to play 85 d/c or not is not worth many dollars (or should I say cents) over the long run.



 
In many cases there are a subset of the penalty situations that can be easily understood. This allows getting a little closer to max-EV without learning all the numerous special cases.
 
Although I only play the 100.28 game I think the following likely still holds.
 
The 8-5 case is played as long as you don't have both flush penalty and straight penalty. There are of course many exceptions but this simple rule handles the majority of cases.
 
For those of you not familiar with OEJs ... 8d 5d 6c 2s Qd ... As you can see we have both the FL and ST penalties. So, since you are normally looking at holding 8-5 vs. a 5 card draw, you might miss the "best" play on this hand is holding the lone 6c.
 

[MikeA]

SM, I'm afraid my 2x4 brain ain't got 'nuff pacity to handle strategy for OEJs. I accepted the challenge of Blackjack and AP play, I think I'll stick with DDB, Blackjack and Golf <LOL>.

But I do admire observing genius at work! And folks, I know SM and that was NOT said tongue in cheek! From reading posts, I think it highly likely that New2VP is also in that category....although I'm thinking he might need to be finding a new "Handle" if he hangs around here much longer.

[cddenver]

But I do admire observing genius at work! And folks, I know SM and that was NOT said tongue in cheek! From reading posts, I think it highly likely that New2VP is also in that category....although I'm thinking he might need to be finding a new "Handle" if he hangs around here much longer.
 
I agree fully with your sentiments regarding SM and New2vp.   In some ways VP is it's own world, but New2vp's recent posts show that "the math stuff" actually has some practical applications, like our VP ().   As important as the actual math, though, is how it's used and both he and SM pointed that out in the other thread.  "Garbage-In-Garbage-Out".  Good definition of objectives and test criteria and sticking with them, and analysis of results are just as important, otherwise a million correct individual calculations may not mean much.  So always be wary - or weary! - of people who pop up and just start posting numbers.

[New2vp]

Shadow's got much more "street cred" to go with his math than I do.  (Maybe 500x more time in a casino and obviously a real student of the game, not to mention 10x the number of posts here!)  As a matter of fact, you all play in casinos much more than I have.  Based on geography and the fact that I don't enjoy playing on poor pay tables, that will probably always be the case.I can generally get more out of the numbers than some (sometimes it's probably not worth the effort), but I've learned a lot about VP by reading many of the posts here and doing a little follow up elsewhere on the net.  Granted, you sometimes have to do a little filtering to separate the wheat from the chaff.  But it's been fun or I wouldn't still be here.Certainly wouldn't want to go through the hassle of changing my name, but they don't always have to be descriptive.  Am I the only one who knew someone named "Tiny" who weighed 350 pounds?

[faygo]

Next purchase for new2vp will be an IBM mainframe that can exceed  pedaflog speed.   It is obvious he is pushing the limits of his PC.
 
 

[cddenver]

Yes, New2vp, your PC would doubtless prefer to be playing VP than doing simulations of it.  

[shadowman]

Next purchase for new2vp will be an IBM mainframe that can exceed  pedaflog speed.   It is obvious he is pushing the limits of his PC.
 
I like your term better than petaflops. Flogging the computer's foot with floating point operations.  

[EDC1977]

  Am I the only one who knew someone named "Tiny" who weighed 350 pounds?
We had a dude at work, 30 years old, 6'5 and 398 lbs. who was nicknamed "tiny" but his name was Philip. He died of cardiac arrest brought on by a diabetic coma with his blood sugar level being near 900! He ate all the good junk and was full of life and laughter, then one day, kaput! We now have a "skinny" who weighs in at close to 300 lbs.

[littleray]

Do you know the cycle, how many regular 4 of a kinds and how many QQ 4 of a kind you get per cycle on 96 JOB QQ's?