Why is HE speaking to Casino Execs?

[rolanddude]

I just don't understand why Bob Dancer is a featured speaker over at UNLV for casino executives this week. (Apparently not his first time talking to these types of groups...google it)  Title of his speech..."What Casino Executives Should Know About Video Poker"....What?????Sleeping with the enemy???Also featured there is training on quote "how to consolidate the wallets of your VIP players..."  and other topics on getting the most out of your VIP's and players.....Hmmmmmmmm!!!!  "How to get the most out of your promotions"....interesting...Now who is selling something?  And what he is selling/exploiting is YOUR INCLINATION TO RESPOND TO THEIR ADVERTISED PROMOS and play for hours (long term) using "Advantage Play".  He knows that you will come and play the way he advocates and teaches!!    Suckers............Go ahead play the way HE wants you to...You are just a commodity to him anyway!  Is he selling all of you guys out?  Do you actually think Casino Executives want all of you "EXPERT" players at their casino........THE ANSWER IS  YES!Read it for yourself...here is the link...http://igi.unlv.edu/professional_seminars_gaming.htmand since the link on UNLV's website to the complete brochure on www.compdance.com is mysteriously damaged as of this morning...(???)  I thought I would add the link below to the HTML version of the brochure that I found on google...http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:s6S ... gl=usthere are a few typos due to HTML translation of the damaged document...Notice at the bottom of the brochure in the credits...Under Bob Dancer it concludes by saying "His expertise helps CLIENTS design successful video poker promotions and EFFECTIVELY manage their video poker business."Well now, Ain't that somethin'!!!!Use your head,Joe

[Eduardo]

Yes, casinos want "expert" players in their casino. They want everyone in their casino. Do you really think they don't want you in their casino, to come in and play less than perfect strategy? Use your head.

Many times Bob Dancer has advised casinos on the best way of attracting players. I believe he does so mostly by telling them what would get him to play there. He encourages better pay tables to attract players. He even requires them at times to receive his endorsement of the casino. I don't know why you would dislike this.
 
Maybe you should go speak to casino execs about how much money they can make by reducing pay tables and driving away all of their loyal customers rather than establishing new ones.

[rolanddude]

Eduardo, I guess that's why He and his business partner Jeffrey Compton are training casino execs at their CDC, Inc. (Compton Dancer Consulting) sponsored classes on how to get the most from their VP players and also the VIP players etc......Their is no mention in the brochure about better pay tables and the such... only strategies to get players to play above par time on the games (play longer)...check the new link I posted above that goes straight to the brochure and 3 day schedule of events that starts today...when you read it you will want to puke!!!!

[rolanddude]

Webman,Why was this post moved here?  I wanted to show how AP strategy may be in the process of being exploited by some to help increase casino profits.  It has everything to do with strategy and nothing to do with stories....If the origins of the Short Term strategies I have been playing are questioned...then why can't I show evidence on the same post forum about some questionable conduct straight from the origins of Advantage Play....Thanks,Joecc: PM

[Webman]

It was moved here because it does not involve any discussion of strategy. By that definition, anything involving Bob Dancer would belong in the strategy forum. The articles also do not mention anything about "AP strategy."Further, you have a misunderstanding about "AP Strategy." This is simply a strategy that allows a player to get the maximum possible return out of a machine. Bob Dancer didn't invent it (it simply exists based on mathematics), but he does teach it.The method does not say anything about playing long or short sessions. The only way it could be "exploited" as you say is in the realization that many people do not play the strategy perfectly and thus have a return lower than the potential return. Thus, profits for the casinos even on positive pay tables.To my knowledge there are only 4 or 5 players on this site that actually employ the strategy in the way you interpret it, which is to play as much as possible making 100% correct holds. The rest use it only as a guide to make the best hold at any given time.So your railing on the matter is really only directed at a select few. It is not this grand "world of AP" of blinded fools that you envision. And those that do employ it because they have the time and ability are successful and show that the mathematics is exactly what it should be.

[shadowman]

First of all, Bob Dancer did not invent "expert play". This was done long before Bob came on the scene. What does Bob do? Bob tries to make a living. He does this by marketing his VP knowledge as consultants in many industries do. He markets to both players and casinos.
Why does Joe care how Dancer makes a living?
 
As for casinos wanting "expert" players ... that is a two edged sword. There are many types of "expert" players. Many have taken one or two classes and never really practice. Some practice a little. Then there are the ones who really nail the strategies. The casinos can't tell these groups apart. So, they want to attrack them all but limit the ways they can be hurt by the better players.
 
We have seen many examples of this approach. Limit the CB and BB points; utilize a theo that looks at the player's actual results; and outright removal from player's club. The fact the casinos have developed  these policies is a testamonial to the fact that "expert" play really works.
 
The real question, once again, is why Joe is attacking "expert" play. Since there is no better method of play from a financial point of view, the only reason someone would attack it is they have their own agenda.
 
So, telll us Joe. Why exactly do you want people to deviate from the "best" approach? WHAT IS YOUR AGENDA?

[rolanddude]

Webman,  I'm questioning how Advantage Play/Long Term Play and the people who use it might actually be marketed to casinos through these seminars?  It sounds like a glaring double standard being played out through the actions of Compton & Dancer...on one hand advocating and teaching a certain way to play...and then teaching casino exec./managers how to get the most out of the players...The whole purpose of this post involves strategy and whether it is corrupt...If He were just teaching Advantage Play strategy I wouldn't question anything...but the fact that he trains and or participates in seminars designed to teach casino managers how to profit the most from their players....STINKS TO HIGH HEAVEN!!!  Advantage Play strategy...Who's got the advantage?  It's time for a new name...Two-Faced Strategy brought to you by CDC (Compton/Dancer Consulting)!!!

[rolanddude]

I am aware that Dancer didn't invent AP or expert play.  But as webman said...He does teach it.   Many people follow him and look up to him and his perceived way of playing.  He has MUCH influence in the VP world and it's players.  All of his classes on Advantage Play should include an additional disclaimer stating that he also helps casinos make a profit from video poker players...That sounds fair enough....So that's my agenda...Dancer needs full disclosure from henceforth...If "The Best" video poker guru needs to moonlight at another job that is his business.  I would think he could write his own checks at the High Limit machines...hmmmm interesting.  Oh well ... just adds to the legend!!!

[Webman]

Long Term Play is not a strategy. It just means playing more. So I stand by moving the thread to this location and I don't know why you would even care. This area is read just as frequently as the strategy section. I am not questioning the validity of the topic, just placing it appropriately.Bob Dancer is able to profit from matters other than playing the machines for one reason: there is value in his teaching. That is why people pay to attend his classes. And casinos would do well to hear his advice on how to attract players such as himself and profit in the midst of them. They are business, after all.Mr Dancer has always been open about relationships with casinos. I believe he shares this at his classes, which he generally holds at locations that accommodate him and his style of play. I do not think you will ever find him denying these relationships. Feel free to contact him on his website and see what he says.

[rolanddude]

Webman,I concede...On long term play,  it is advocated for by the people who play AP and have to show that it is over the "long term"  that their results/goals are obtained.  Not session to session...that is what I meant.Dancer's relationship with casinos was never mentioned in the books that I bought from him!!  Nowhere!!!