Gold Exclusive
My Favorites
Mickey, I'm certainly not going to argue with you since I'm not in a position to do so. slots however, are CONTROLLED by the RNG and however much of deductive reasoning is used is no guarantee that you're gonna pop that 10th rock in the shaft or get that bonus on the buccaneers gold game. Perhaps it worked out for yourself and a few others which is great since we as players, really have no control over where the reels are going to stop. Some do have that "stop" feature on them but your timing must be impeccable. Garnering those kinds of wins vs. small ones at VP would give one an edge playing the slots if your luck and the situations are prime. Given todays economy, you'd be sitting around like a turkey vulture waiting for someone to play those machines back into positive territory.
Dont't give up your day job.
My History in Video Poker
-
mickey crimm
- Senior Member
- Posts: 133
- Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:16 am
-
faygo
- Video Poker Master
- Posts: 2925
- Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 6:55 am
EDC the stop feature you referred to only allows you to play faster. The outcome is determined when you press the spin button.
-
jm002546
- Senior Member
- Posts: 398
- Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2007 9:13 am
It is just incredible to me that a casino could be stupid enough to put in such poorly designed machines. But, wow, would I have enjoyed tapping them!!!!!!
-
New2vp
- Video Poker Master
- Posts: 1852
- Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2006 4:02 am
Progressives and advantage slots don't hurt the casinos, only the patrons who play them while the banked jackpots are low.
-
mickey crimm
- Senior Member
- Posts: 133
- Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:16 am
It is just incredible to me that a casino could be stupid enough to put in such poorly designed machines. But, wow, would I have enjoyed tapping them!!!!!!
Wow!!! It was 80 degrees day before yesterday. Now it's snowing to beat hell!!
Yes, JM, you would have loved it. I could introduce you to many a gambler, including myself, who got their start in gambling by building major bankrolls off the advantage slots.
Two friends for example, pulled a motor home up to the Grand Victoria in Elgin, Illinois sometime in 1998 or 1999. They had little bankroll to start with, but just enough to get started. The place was filled with advantage slots. Six months later, when they finally got invited to leave, they both had $125,000 bankrolls.
The advanatage slot boom started in 1996 when Williams came out with Piggy Bankin'. They were very popular machines, and I was in the right place at the right time. The stars lined up for me. I just happened to roll into Laughlin when the whole thing started and got tipped off to them. Williams followed suit with Safecracker, X-Factor, Shopping Spree.
Then the Odyssey machines by Silicon Gaming came out sometime in late 1996 or early 1997 with games like Lady of Fortune, Riddle of the Sphinx, Fort Knox, Buccaneer Gold.
Slot machine manufacturers rip each other off for their designs. IGT is the prime example. Their Good Times machines are a ripoff of the Williams game X-Factor. Anyways, when IGT seen how popular these bonusing slots were they came out with their own line called the IGT Vision Series: Good Times, Wild Cherry Pie, Wild Cherry Bonus Pie, Double Diamond Mine, Fishin' For Cash, Diamond Thief, Jewel In The Crown, Slot Bingo, Money Factory, Times Pay, Mystery Bonus, Globe Shopping.
There were many other games too. They just don't come to memory right now. 10% to 20% of the casinos floors were dedicated to these machines. And in some places, like Bellagio for instance it was probably around 30% or 35%.
Another thing we did during the advantage slot boom was make all the new casino openings. Monte Carlo, New York, New York, Mandalay Bay, Bellagio, Paris. We wanted to be in on anything new. The Mandalay Bay opening is a story in itself which I will get to later.
In Nevada most of the games were in quarter and dollar denomination. There were very few in the five dollar denom. But in Mississippi they put in hoardes of five dollar denom. The hustlers who went there made a stone cold killing--$20,000 to $30,000 a month. When Lyle Berman, who owned the Grand Casinos at the time, snapped to all the hustlers getting rich off his machines, he called in his consultant friend, David Sklansky. Sklansky went to Mississippi and walked the casino floors for a few days watching what was going on. His advice to Berman: Take the machines out!
The bonus machines hit everywhere. Connecticut , New Jersey, Missouri, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Wisconsin, California. Teams monopolized many of the casinos involved. The illegal Chinese were the worst. And what better way to make a living in the U.S. without being detected. They monopolized Foxwoods in Connecticut, Motor City in Detroit, The Horseshoe in East Chicago, Bellagio, Treasure Island, Mirage, Paris, MGM; and God knows where else.
Take MGM for example. They would post someone up on every bank of bonus slots in the place. It didn't matter whether the machines were getting action by the tourists or not. There was always someone posted up on the bank. This sort of thing led to many a fight. It was so comical to watch. Whenever a tourist was giving a bonus machine action a couple of these Chinese hustlers would stand just a few feet behind the tourist to make sure no one tried to cut in if the tourist left a play. This sort of thing also contributed to the demise of the machines.
One of the funny things about the illegals was their lack of identification. When one of them hit a W2-G pay they would have to scramble to get someone to the machine who had ID. But sometimes there was no one available and they simply had to walk off from the machine. One day, MGM Security lined them all up and marched them out of the casino, never to return.
Many factors led to the demise of the advantage slots. When it first started there wasn't that many of us who knew how to play them. But as time went by more and more people learned. It got saturated. The vulture activity, people standing around sweating thes plays contributed. Fights over the machines; A Chinese and a Vietnamese got into a knife fight over a machine in Bellagio.
Charles Lund's book didn't help things. And his feud with Bellagio and Tropicana didn't help. It got lots of publicity. The Las Vegas Review Journal wrote about the feud and what caused it. They even quoted a Bellagio executive saying he "wasn't comfortable with people standing around waiting to pick off the machines."
The tourists didn't know how to play the machines correctly to get the bonus's. So they took a big drop. One thing a novice does know is that his money is disappearing quickly. So the machines started suffering from lack of activity---and............the machines simply ran out of shelf life. Eventually every machine in a casino gets replaced.
What happened to all those advantage slot hustlers once it was over? There are those of us who used the opportunity to build bankroll and learn other gamblng skills; like video poker and live poker. But the bulk never developed other skills. Many had bad habits like booze, drugs, compulsive gambling, etc. So what happened to them? Well, I guess they either went back to work or they're living in a Rescue Mission somewhere.
Is it completely over? NO. There are still some things out there. But I have some friends who might get sore if I wrote about it. So I guess I have to keep my mouth shut for now.
Wow!!! It was 80 degrees day before yesterday. Now it's snowing to beat hell!!
Yes, JM, you would have loved it. I could introduce you to many a gambler, including myself, who got their start in gambling by building major bankrolls off the advantage slots.
Two friends for example, pulled a motor home up to the Grand Victoria in Elgin, Illinois sometime in 1998 or 1999. They had little bankroll to start with, but just enough to get started. The place was filled with advantage slots. Six months later, when they finally got invited to leave, they both had $125,000 bankrolls.
The advanatage slot boom started in 1996 when Williams came out with Piggy Bankin'. They were very popular machines, and I was in the right place at the right time. The stars lined up for me. I just happened to roll into Laughlin when the whole thing started and got tipped off to them. Williams followed suit with Safecracker, X-Factor, Shopping Spree.
Then the Odyssey machines by Silicon Gaming came out sometime in late 1996 or early 1997 with games like Lady of Fortune, Riddle of the Sphinx, Fort Knox, Buccaneer Gold.
Slot machine manufacturers rip each other off for their designs. IGT is the prime example. Their Good Times machines are a ripoff of the Williams game X-Factor. Anyways, when IGT seen how popular these bonusing slots were they came out with their own line called the IGT Vision Series: Good Times, Wild Cherry Pie, Wild Cherry Bonus Pie, Double Diamond Mine, Fishin' For Cash, Diamond Thief, Jewel In The Crown, Slot Bingo, Money Factory, Times Pay, Mystery Bonus, Globe Shopping.
There were many other games too. They just don't come to memory right now. 10% to 20% of the casinos floors were dedicated to these machines. And in some places, like Bellagio for instance it was probably around 30% or 35%.
Another thing we did during the advantage slot boom was make all the new casino openings. Monte Carlo, New York, New York, Mandalay Bay, Bellagio, Paris. We wanted to be in on anything new. The Mandalay Bay opening is a story in itself which I will get to later.
In Nevada most of the games were in quarter and dollar denomination. There were very few in the five dollar denom. But in Mississippi they put in hoardes of five dollar denom. The hustlers who went there made a stone cold killing--$20,000 to $30,000 a month. When Lyle Berman, who owned the Grand Casinos at the time, snapped to all the hustlers getting rich off his machines, he called in his consultant friend, David Sklansky. Sklansky went to Mississippi and walked the casino floors for a few days watching what was going on. His advice to Berman: Take the machines out!
The bonus machines hit everywhere. Connecticut , New Jersey, Missouri, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Wisconsin, California. Teams monopolized many of the casinos involved. The illegal Chinese were the worst. And what better way to make a living in the U.S. without being detected. They monopolized Foxwoods in Connecticut, Motor City in Detroit, The Horseshoe in East Chicago, Bellagio, Treasure Island, Mirage, Paris, MGM; and God knows where else.
Take MGM for example. They would post someone up on every bank of bonus slots in the place. It didn't matter whether the machines were getting action by the tourists or not. There was always someone posted up on the bank. This sort of thing led to many a fight. It was so comical to watch. Whenever a tourist was giving a bonus machine action a couple of these Chinese hustlers would stand just a few feet behind the tourist to make sure no one tried to cut in if the tourist left a play. This sort of thing also contributed to the demise of the machines.
One of the funny things about the illegals was their lack of identification. When one of them hit a W2-G pay they would have to scramble to get someone to the machine who had ID. But sometimes there was no one available and they simply had to walk off from the machine. One day, MGM Security lined them all up and marched them out of the casino, never to return.
Many factors led to the demise of the advantage slots. When it first started there wasn't that many of us who knew how to play them. But as time went by more and more people learned. It got saturated. The vulture activity, people standing around sweating thes plays contributed. Fights over the machines; A Chinese and a Vietnamese got into a knife fight over a machine in Bellagio.
Charles Lund's book didn't help things. And his feud with Bellagio and Tropicana didn't help. It got lots of publicity. The Las Vegas Review Journal wrote about the feud and what caused it. They even quoted a Bellagio executive saying he "wasn't comfortable with people standing around waiting to pick off the machines."
The tourists didn't know how to play the machines correctly to get the bonus's. So they took a big drop. One thing a novice does know is that his money is disappearing quickly. So the machines started suffering from lack of activity---and............the machines simply ran out of shelf life. Eventually every machine in a casino gets replaced.
What happened to all those advantage slot hustlers once it was over? There are those of us who used the opportunity to build bankroll and learn other gamblng skills; like video poker and live poker. But the bulk never developed other skills. Many had bad habits like booze, drugs, compulsive gambling, etc. So what happened to them? Well, I guess they either went back to work or they're living in a Rescue Mission somewhere.
Is it completely over? NO. There are still some things out there. But I have some friends who might get sore if I wrote about it. So I guess I have to keep my mouth shut for now.
-
jm002546
- Senior Member
- Posts: 398
- Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2007 9:13 am
That usually 60% return must slow down new reset play on them, though.
-
mickey crimm
- Senior Member
- Posts: 133
- Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:16 am
The last casino opening I made was Wynn Las Vegas. I walked the whole casino floor. Not one advantage slot anywhere. I guess Stieve learned his lesson at Bellagio.
-
mickey crimm
- Senior Member
- Posts: 133
- Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:16 am
Progressives and advantage slots don't hurt the casinos, only the patrons who play them while the banked jackpots are low.
The advantage slot pro who only plays when he catches a positive situation does slighty cut into casino profits simply because he cashes out once he gets the bonus. He doesn't play the money back through like a tourist does.
The advantage slot pro who only plays when he catches a positive situation does slighty cut into casino profits simply because he cashes out once he gets the bonus. He doesn't play the money back through like a tourist does.
-
jm002546
- Senior Member
- Posts: 398
- Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2007 9:13 am
How about a black jack story, Mickey. Surely you've stumbled on some unusual rule situations that offered a big advantage. MikeA wants to hear about them.................so do I.
-
mickey crimm
- Senior Member
- Posts: 133
- Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:16 am
How about a black jack story, Mickey. Surely you've stumbled on some unusual rule situations that offered a big advantage. MikeA wants to hear about them.................so do I.
When I first got into gambling I evaluated everything where a player could gain an edge and whether I wanted to get involved. Blackjack was one of them. As you know, Blackjack with the old Vegas Rules was an easy game for a good card counter to beat. But the problem, a real big problem, was getting away with it. I've even seen just red chip players betting from $5 to $20 get pitched out of the casinos. The biggest heat in the casinos then was in the pits. You could lose alot of casinos real fast. I've felt the world growing smaller just off the few casinos I've lost over the years. I made the decision to steer clear of Blackjack. But I do have some Video Blackjack Stories that I will get around to. I've got lots of stories so bare with me as I;m pressed for time right now.
I'm planning out a trip right now. It's a covert operation. I have to go to another state to survey things out and see if there is any money to be made. I'll probably be leaving early next week I won't be bringing my laptop. But I will pick up where I left off when I get back.
When I first got into gambling I evaluated everything where a player could gain an edge and whether I wanted to get involved. Blackjack was one of them. As you know, Blackjack with the old Vegas Rules was an easy game for a good card counter to beat. But the problem, a real big problem, was getting away with it. I've even seen just red chip players betting from $5 to $20 get pitched out of the casinos. The biggest heat in the casinos then was in the pits. You could lose alot of casinos real fast. I've felt the world growing smaller just off the few casinos I've lost over the years. I made the decision to steer clear of Blackjack. But I do have some Video Blackjack Stories that I will get around to. I've got lots of stories so bare with me as I;m pressed for time right now.
I'm planning out a trip right now. It's a covert operation. I have to go to another state to survey things out and see if there is any money to be made. I'll probably be leaving early next week I won't be bringing my laptop. But I will pick up where I left off when I get back.
