Tight machines

[keno3699]

Do casinos tighten up VP machines or not?  I just keep hearing this all the time. 

[shadowman]

The only way to "tighten" a VP machine is to lower the paytable. This does happen but it's obvious since the paytable is always right on the machine.


 
However, I know exactly what you mean. I hear the same thing all the time even when there are no changes to the paytables. It's simply a reflection of a person having a bad day. 

[spxChrome]

Bad day, bad paytable or not.  All I can go by is "real life" play.  Last year 18 royals, this year 6.  Same % cut on special aces and special 2,3,4 on TDB.  And my visits are slighty up but my return is cut by 65%.   I used to average 11 4ofK per session now I average about 4 on a bad day 6 on a not as bad day.



 
Being random and guaranting a payback % is a contraction in itself.

[shadowman]

This is typical random fluctuations. We hate it when it works against us and love it when it works for us. I doubt you were complaining when you were hitting better than average.
This is why I keep stats. I know when I've been lucky and when I've been unlucky. Just as the 9 months before I got hot was rather unlucky, the last few weeks have been very lucky.
 
I know this doesn't help during those bad periods. I mutter obscenities to myself quite often. However, after years and years of the seeing these streaks, I know they are normal.
 
BTW, there is no guarantee of any payback %. I have no idea where you got that idea.

[pokeherguy]

{I used to average 11 4ofK per session now I average about 4 on a bad day 6 on a not as bad day.}
 
That is so odd because I recently had a conversation with someone who said the same thing except they usually hit around 10 quads per trip. They play far more than I do but my quad numbers were off on average also. I'd be fibbing if I said I believed it was all random. Whether it is or not I still enjoy it more than any of the other games.



 

[cddenver]

That is so odd because I recently had a conversation with someone who said the same thing except they usually hit around 10 quads per trip. They play far more than I do but my quad numbers were off on average also. I'd be fibbing if I said I believed it was all random. Whether it is or not I still enjoy it more than any of the other games.




 
I know from my own records that we can go long periods of time hitting nice winners at greater than expected rates or less than expected rates.  I had a three year period (2004-2006) where I averaged a RF every 30K hands each of those years.  If I didn't know that the long-term rate for RFs is 40K hands, I might have convinced myself that the 30K rate I had during those three years was the long term average, and that any I hit at 40K hands were coming at the end of dry spells.  My average for RFs in the years since (2007-2009) has been over 40K hands, and I just think of it as a case of "what comes around, goes around".   My average over all the years I've kept records remains close to 40K.
 
The same holds true for lesser-pays like Aces, 2's-4's, and kickers.  Aces come about every 7.5 hours of single line play if you assume a rate for them of about 6K hands and play at 800 hands per hour.  So appreciate those sessions where you hit Aces 2-3 or more times, because that WILL be offset at some point by periods where you go longer between them.  
 
 

[Lucky Larry]

If I had a $ for every time the players next to me complained about the casino tightening the odds on the VP machines, I would be playing $5 VP instead of 25¢ VP. These are often regular players who are going through a cold streak. Often though these are the same people who seem to forget the hot streaks. One regular who chain smokes the entire 6-8 hours she sits on the row has been complaining about the lousy hits the last month. She plays 1 hand x 2 or 10¢ per hand SDB on 5¢ - 100 hand machines. Less than two weeks ago I spent four hours watching her be dealt Aces, Kings, and 4's and at least another 8-9 quads on the draw in one sitting. I was dying playing 25-50 hands SDB and never seeing a dealt quad and rarely a quad even with 3 Kind. The same weekend her running buddy was playing 2 hands Royal Aces (50¢/hand) and was dealt the Aces. Yet, this week she was complaining about no hits lately.

While I don't keep our # hands/RF I do track each one by date and number of sessions. The streaks are often killers. In 2008 our RF by quarter were:
First Quarter       =   5
Second Quarter   =   10
Third Quarter      =   4
Fourth Quarter    =   9
We even played more over some of the colder streaks than the hotter ones.

2009 - Play has been fairly consistent in # trips and hands but the streaks are still there.
First Quarter       = 2 Killer time!!!!
Second Quarter   = 2 By now we were crying and dying!!!   
Third Quarter      = 6 including 2 days with 2 RF

Hey, I hit quad Aces on Royal Aces Monday playing 5 hands and then 8-10 hands later hit Quad Aces on two hands out of 10. Later I was dealt three 2's on DW and hit 4 hands of Quad Deuces out of 10 hands. When they're hot they're hot!   

Long live the new hot streak!

LL