Changing Machines?

[brmcc74]

I guess my point is what difference does it make whether a player decides to move or not, its random right?  So is it a negative decision? I say no. Maybe netrual if anything. As far as the BKRL comment, I was reffering to what I have been told by players who claim to be professionals what I need to sustain a .25 level of play. What I would like to know truthfully (Although will not happen) , is the TRUTH about how many players are playing close to 100%  or perfect strategy and playing throughout the year and still year after year coming out in the positive while playing positive expectation games.

[shadowman]

The problem with your question is it is not really going to tell you enough. If one player is playing with a 2% edge and another with a .2% edge, their results are likely to be very different. However, both players would meet your criteria of playing with a positive expectation. The first player is likely to win almost every year, the second player will probably lose more years than they win.

[brmcc74]

Ill make it easier............How many players that have taken ALL of the positive steps in order to achieve optimum results, are coming out ahead year after year.

[Frank Kneeland]

Ill make it easier............How many players that have taken ALL of the positive steps in order to achieve optimum results, are coming out ahead year after year.


I saw this question and realized I might be the best to answer it, since I have access to the results of a large sample of full time pros.Of the six pros I partner with, they have logged 5 losing years between them in the last twenty.That's about a 96% chance to have a winning year vs. a 4% chance to lose in this sample.And that's just their individual results. Since they started partnering the group has never lost overall in a year...not even close.It's really super hard to do what we do...and it's really super hard to do what we do and lose.~FK

[brmcc74]

Interesting. I can appreciate the honesty and truth behind those numbers. Seems realistic to me. Although not perfection, the truth is refreshing.

[ravenbynight111]

 Fran k i understand your point and you are right they is no sound way to know if a machine is hot. But i keep my eyes and ears open i love information in any kind of gaming. My play is to get on a machine that is close to keeping me  with in a hundred or two to even.I and hope i hit a good lick. But on the flip side if a machine is ice cold I am out of there.If the machine is hot i will not get up. Two years ago at ldl i was on a 50cent tdb machine and was up 2200 with no major hits.I had to get up and go to dinner. When i back from dinner i went back to the machine and could not get on it. I sat next to the machine being played by older man and he could not miss. I have a good head for knowing the feel of the machine. Call me crazy but my wife is just the flip side. Why is the million dollar ?.I am very intense when i play my wife is strictly for fun.Her wins are seldom.

[Lucky Larry]

Don't forget some of the differences between pros and recreational players:

1) Frank is a member of a 7 person team that plays as a "team" to get the win/paycheck.
Usually it is only one of us or with our spouse vs the machine/casino.

2) Their work is to gamble. So once they pick out a Progressive or a machine to play they may take turns playing that machine non-stop until they hit. Doing something for a living is a great motivator to learn to play correctly, efficiently and successfully.
Once again physically we can't play a machine non-stop without a loss of concentration. Most of us don't have the motivation of having to win!

3) By combining their "G" money they have a bigger pot to play through. Frank mentioned $35K minimum if I recall.
Our "G" pots are usually much less by at least a multiple of seven. If Sweet C and I are both losing, it is hard to have money for the next trip. As long as one of us is winning - we both have money for another trip.

4) Losses are spread out between the team and wins are probably split between the seven. If one player has a losing streak the odds are that another one picks up the wins.
Much like investing in the stock market. You are better off in the long run to buy a Total Stock Market Index Mutual fund (thousands of stocks) than try to hand pick 1, 2, or 3 winning stocks. You spread out your risks of loss. You'll have some losers but overall you'll match the market for the year and the market historically is a winner.

5) Playing in Vegas the pros have access to the top pay machines and can play higher denominations (usually higher returns) because of pooled money.
Most of us are forced into lower denominations (usually lower pay returns) or FP machines with less pot.

[Frank Kneeland]

Don't forget some of the differences between pros and recreational players:

Good post and you got it all right except for the fact that my group is a six man team.One thing though: Pros and recreational players might have different motivations, but their goals are identical.Pros = want to make moneyRecreational players = want to have fun = want to make moneyFun = WinningPro mentality = whatever it takes to have the best chance of winning.Recreational player using pro mentality = best chance to have "fun".I don't think we are as different as you'd like to think.Unless you are defining "fun" as something other than a desire to win???If so, please elaborate?~FK

[Frank Kneeland]

 I do think sitting at a machine that is not paying is a major mistake. Something about this statement has been bothing me, so I had to ask.When you said, "is not paying" did you in fact mean, "hasn't been paying"?You used the present tense and this has left me very confused as to what you meant.Even if one were in mid-hand, I don't think VP machines have a present tense. You'd still have to play the hand to know if you would have gotten a pay, and by the time you did that, it would already be in the past...so you'd still have to use the past tense.Off the top of my head I can't think of any situation where one can mix machine results with a statement about the current inclination of the machine. If I've missed something please correct me.Looking forward to your answer.~FK

[royal flush]

a machine that has been eating up money ,could pop out a royal on the very next deal the only logical reasons to change machines is to get more leg room, get away from an annoying player-smoker keys sticking hard to see cards. all of this is assuming both of the machines have identical paytables, i was at a bank of progressive games had 8-5 job with 2 machines having 9-6 job progressivein the same progressive bank