Measuring Change

[faygo]

 


                                                                        

[Frank Kneeland]

I then pass along that information on forums like this one when the topic arises. I always find it humorous when people passionately disagree but have done none of the work to really understand.Perhaps you'd have more luck if you passed on the information (sans your personal opinion) and let people draw their own conclusions. What I've read on the subject suggests this method has more potential to effect change.~FKP.S. You may already do this. I wouldn't know. I only skim your advice posts as I don't typically need them.

[damule]

[QUOTE=shadowman]I then pass along that information on forums like this one when the topic arises. I always find it humorous when people passionately disagree but have done none of the work to really understand.

Perhaps you'd have more luck if you passed on the information (sans your personal opinion) and let people draw their own conclusions. What I've read on the subject suggests this method has more potential to effect change.

~FK

P.S. You may already do this. I wouldn't know. I only skim your advice posts as I don't typically need them.
[/QUOTE]

 
Frank the problem is, and I have been witness to this multiple times on multiple forums, that shadowman will solely pass the information on but then he will be ridiculed and chastised by those who do not accept the information as factual. These posters will do none of the research and present nothing to the contray to dispute the facts and information presented. Most of those doubters will become even more vile when shadowman suggests to them to do the research and prove otherwise. This occurs over and over again in multiple forums. It becomes old after awhile to try to educate the ignorant.

[Frank Kneeland]

Frank the problem is, and I have been witness to this multiple times on multiple forums, that shadowman will solely pass the information on but then he will be ridiculed and chastised by those who do not accept the information as factual. These posters will do none of the research and present nothing to the contray to dispute the facts and information presented. Most of those doubters will become even more vile when shadowman suggests to them to do the research and prove otherwise. This occurs over and over again in multiple forums. It becomes old after awhile to try to educate the ignorant. I see. Well if it's not what he's saying that is the issue, then perhaps it is how he's saying it. Or, perhaps there will always be doubters no matter what one says or how one says it, and the secret to "resolving" the problem is not minding.~FK

[shadowman]

I see. Well if it's not what he's saying that is the issue, then perhaps it is how he's saying it. Or, perhaps there will always be doubters no matter what one says or how one says it, and the secret to "resolving" the problem is not minding.



 
No, it's what I'm saying. It is generally related to information that supports the concept that it is possible to win playing VP and that one can use math to their advantage. There are a number of reasons why people don't want to accept this, and while you know first hand I am right, these people would rather believe no one wins.
 
I've stated many times I don't care how anyone plays or whether they have won or lost. I've never tried to change anyones method of play. I simply deal in facts.
 

[Frank Kneeland]

[QUOTE=Frank Kneeland] I see. Well if it's not what he's saying that is the issue, then perhaps it is how he's saying it. Or, perhaps there will always be doubters no matter what one says or how one says it, and the secret to "resolving" the problem is not minding.


 
No, it's what I'm saying. It is generally related to information that supports the concept that it is possible to win playing VP and that one can use math to their advantage. There are a number of reasons why people don't want to accept this, and while you know first hand I am right, these people would rather believe no one wins.

[/QUOTE]Well this certainly seems like a valid thing to debate on a video poker forum. Would everyone like me to start a new thread and we can get this resolved? At the very least I would like to know what the opinions are out there and what is behind them.~FK

[royal flush]

the answer is obvious as many losing player are in denial blaiming the machines as being rigged the poker dealer being "lousy" the stupid jockey. they are in denial thinking they win at negative expected games, the same folks are not very sucessful in other aspects of their life.  but maybe the poltergeist in the vp machine caused the royal to pop up in the machine they moved from as it had been jinxed

[Frank Kneeland]

the answer is obvious as many losing player are in denial blaiming the machines as being rigged the poker dealer being "lousy" the stupid jockey. they are in denial thinking they win at negative expected games, the same folks are not very sucessful in other aspects of their life.  but maybe the poltergeist in the vp machine caused the royal to pop up in the machine they moved from as it had been jinxedSo was that a vote for or against starting a debate on the subject?I'd like to do it in a clean thread, if we are going to do it at all.

[faygo]

[QUOTE=shadowman][QUOTE=Frank Kneeland] I see. Well if it's not what he's saying that is the issue, then perhaps it is how he's saying it. Or, perhaps there will always be doubters no matter what one says or how one says it, and the secret to "resolving" the problem is not minding.



 
No, it's what I'm saying. It is generally related to information that supports the concept that it is possible to win playing VP and that one can use math to their advantage. There are a number of reasons why people don't want to accept this, and while you know first hand I am right, these people would rather believe no one wins.
[/QUOTE]

Well this certainly seems like a valid thing to debate on a video poker forum. Would everyone like me to start a new thread and we can get this resolved?

At the very least I would like to know what the opinions are out there and what is behind them.

~FK
[/QUOTE]

 
Discuss what?
Opinions on what?
 
If you are trying to debate VP Advantage strategy VS some other method, it has been discussed here Ad Nauseum.
If you intend to discuss why some people maintain that no one ever wins, expect anecdotal evidence and nothing more.

[Frank Kneeland]

If you intend to discuss why some people maintain that no one ever wins, expect anecdotal evidence and nothing more.There seems to be an ongoing debate about whether or not it is possible to make money playing VP. I must say this surprises me.I was curious about all the particulars. But I don't want to start a thread on the subject if no one wants to discuss it. See here's the thing, I can't really think of a good reason why I would want to convince anyone of this particular fact, if they firmly believed otherwise. (other than the obvious self serving one of increasing book sales). I'm not comfortable with that on any level. I did not write my book to promote gambling.My message was, "Yes it's possible, but it's incredibly hard and not worth the trouble. Now go do something else. I've wasted my life, and shared the experience, so you don't have to."So I'd vote for not debating the subject and letting people think what they will. I think this is a let sleeping dogs lie situation.~FK