Class III vs. Class II VP machines

[milmont77]

Ok, on the way out of Barona last nite I picked up a free magazine titled "strictly slots" hoping there might be some VP info inside.   Sure enough there are several articles including one titled "Take the Money and Run" by Henry Tamburin.  In the article he resolves a dispute between husband and wife over whether it's a good idea to move to a new machine after hitting a RF.  The author elaborates on random number generation which, in effect, means it doesn't matter what machine you are playing... it's all random all the time.However... he ends the article by noting that true RNG is on Class III VP machines found in  Vegas and AC.   He notes that most Indian Reservations use Class II machines in which hands are dealt PREDETERMINED based on the results of a bingo or lottery game.   He then says he will expound on the topic in a future article.My reaction is WHAAAAAAAAT  ? ? ? ? Please don't tell me that Indian reservations mostly use machines that are not RNG.   How do we as players walk into a casino and find out what class machine it is?   I want to play true RNG.   The casinos in San Diego have been around a long time and are well established.  I am assuming they are using class III.   I expect the article is referring to some of the smaller Indian Casino popping up all across the country.,   I don't know though???   So how do we as players check on this ?

[shadowman]

I believe all CA casinos are class III. In fact, I think most Indian casinos are now class III. The way to tell is the way class II machines operate. They decide the result before you select the cards. Therefore, you could select cards that make the predetermined result impossible. To handle this situation the class II machines have a secondary method of paying. If the machine has one then it is a class II machine. If not, it is class III.

[milmont77]

The article is a big misrepresentation of Indian Casinos.  he makes a sweeping generalized statement by saying "most indian casinos are class 2"...   I am glad that is not the case as I want to play RNG

[Frank Kneeland]

Oversight by Nevada gaming control is not by any stretch of the imagination perfect. In Indian casinos the oversight tends to be even worse or nearly non-existent. If you are trusting the better nature of humans in a casino environment you are going to be disappointed a lot.People with better natures do not own casinos.Expect honesty only when it is in their own best interest, or when fear of punishment keeps them honest. ~FK

[tjcs]

I've asked this question before and was told a class II VP machine will always have the "bingo" card some where on the screen. The same as their regular Class II slots.
I hope this is true.

[BOOPSAHOY]

Its not always a bingo card. Sometimes -don't laugh-a fairy comes across the screen and changes the cards. I've also seen where there's a card displayed at the top that if you get it in your hand you get a bonus. Both signs of non rng games. These are the ones they have at Empire in Yonkers. BTW this is a staterun racino.

[lamakow]

I quit playing at Indian casinos because I had heard the same thing but recently I was told that all IGT machines are RNG. 

[shadowman]

Yes, all machines I'm aware of do have an RNG. Even Class II machines have an RNG, however, that doesn't mean the games will return what we've been told. It is possible to weigh certain results even though an RNG is used to make the selection. This is how most slot machines work.


 
There needs to be other factors involved. All symbols must have an equal chance of appearing and no secondary programming is allowed. With these rules the RNG will provide a fair game.

[OTABILL]

Yes, all machines I'm aware of do have an RNG. Even Class II machines have an RNG, however, that doesn't mean the games will return what we've been told. It is possible to weigh certain results even though an RNG is used to make the selection. This is how most slot machines work.


 
There needs to be other factors involved. All symbols must have an equal chance of appearing and no secondary programming is allowed. With these rules the RNG will provide a fair game.

If I understand correctly, all Class III machines theoretically do not have secondary programs or any other inputs that eliminate random outcome unlike Class II machines.

[shadowman]

Yes, otabill, that is specified in NV gaming regs as well as most other states.