what would i hold on this?

[oasisbliss]

i would think i would hold the JH AND KC  WHY NOT HOLD THE  AD AND KC?AD  5C  JH  KC  2KTHANKSMIKE

[New2vp]

In answering you, I am going to assume that the game you are playing is 9/6 JoB (since your other post mentioned this) and that the last card is 2H (or another deuce).When people have played table poker but not much video poker, they would like to hold AK instead of KJ, because in table poker ties between hands like two pairs are decided based on the rank of the highest pair.  In video poker, there are no ties so AAKK3 and KKJJ4 pay exactly the same amount.Holding the KJ gives you exactly the same possibilities as AK on all hand types EXCEPT straights.  With the AK, you can make 4 x 3 x 4 = 48 straights of the type AKQJT (since there are 4 Queens, 3 Jacks, and 4 Tens left in the deck).  With the KJ, you can make 3 x 4 x 4 = 48 straights of the type AKQJT, but also 4 x 4 x 4 = 64 more straights of the type KQJT9.So, the extra chances at the straight make KJ the more valuable hold.In this game, a pair of jacks is equal in value to a pair of queens, a pair of kings, or a pair of aces.Unlike table poker, all other things equal the cards closer to the middle of the deck are more valuable since they can make more types of straights.  So, the Jack is more valuable than the Queen, which in turn is more valuable than the K.  The Ace is just as valuable as the King because, like the King, it can make two straights.  All of these are more valuable than the deuce through the ten, since lower pairs do not pay in this game.In other types of video poker games if four aces pays sufficiently more, the Ace can move up in value to be the most valuable single card to hold.Edit:  You may wish to visit the video poker software posts (or visit a free site like vpgenius.com).  There are many more questions like this that you will have to answer before these types of decisions become more natural to you.  In most cases, such software will analyze a particular hand for you and tell you the chances for the outcome of each final hand as well as what the average value of each hold will be.    

[jm002546]

Great post, but how about making that edit portion HUGE.

[New2vp]

Great post, but how about making that edit portion HUGE.

Thanks, Happy to oblige...especially when it is that easy!

[jm002546]

Good for you.  I hope lots of people SEE it and quit asking questions they should be able to answer for themselves.

[New2vp]

I don't mind people asking questions though I don't always have time to answer, but someone here will.  Before this forum existed and before I knew about others, I remember being puzzled a few times some years ago as to why certain holds had exceptions.  Most of them were penalty situations, but I imagine I had trouble initially wondering why a jack was better than an ace when my previous poker training said otherwise.

[jm002546]

  You have a valid point, but often people are asking what even a basic strategy card clear answers. Deuces players please note that a J is not better than an A, both are discards.  I'm sure you know that.Of course, if a progressive royal were high enough.........   I was actually considering the other day how high a RF progressive would have to bebefore the adjusted strategy would no longer change.  Say in DB.  And what would be the first holdable hand? With 4 Aces you would keep an ace that was not suited to the off card.

[New2vp]

I was actually considering the other day how high a RF progressive would have to be before the adjusted strategy would no longer change.  Say in DB.  And what would be the first holdable hand? With 4 Aces you would keep an ace that was not suited to the off card.Although an interesting theoretical question, I think the answer would have little practical value since the breakeven rate necessary for the EV of holding a single ace out of quad aces would be over 100 million coins in DB.  What's more is that it would require an even higher progressive royal jackpot to justify tossing all 5 cards of a hand like 44449 to try for a redraw royal.I'm fairly certain if I had a play on a machine like this, I would probably hold both 4 aces and other quads, pocket the immediate payoffs and take the chance that the reduced variance of this play was enough for me to justify putting off the possible but unlikely royal payoff on that hand...but, in the real world, we'll never know.

[jm002546]

[QUOTE=jm002546]I was actually considering the other day how high a RF progressive would have to be before the adjusted strategy would no longer change.  Say in DB.  And what would be the first holdable hand? With 4 Aces you would keep an ace that was not suited to the off card.Although an interesting theoretical question, I think the answer would have little practical value since the breakeven rate necessary for the EV of holding a single ace out of quad aces would be over 100 million coins in DB.  What's more is that it would require an even higher progressive royal jackpot to justify tossing all 5 cards of a hand like 44449 to try for a redraw royal.I'm fairly certain if I had a play on a machine like this, I would probably hold both 4 aces and other quads, pocket the immediate payoffs and take the chance that the reduced variance of this play was enough for me to justify putting off the possible but unlikely royal payoff on that hand...but, in the real world, we'll never know.
[/QUOTE]Granted, it's not going to happen, but it still poses some interesting computations.  Your answer is totally off base: I ask at what level the strategy would be frozen, whereby you would only go for a royal.  Never mind, though.  

[New2vp]

I was actually considering the other day how high a RF progressive would have to be before the adjusted strategy would no longer change.  Say in DB.  And what would be the first holdable hand? With 4 Aces you would keep an ace that was not suited to the off card.Granted, it's not going to happen, but it still poses some interesting computations.  Your answer is totally off base: I ask at what level the strategy would be frozen, whereby you would only go for a royal.  Never mind, though.I think your assessment here is a little harsh, but that's ok.  My answer gave you the hand that you needed to consider to get an exact answer in many Double Bonus cases (44449) and told you that the answer was over 100 million coins, which I believe was true on both counts.  Certainly you cannot expect an exact answer unless you specify an exact pay schedule (but I wouldn't say that your question was totally off base because of that).  If I say that 152,720,315 coins is break even in the worst possible case (and the answer is one more coin if you like to take low variance holds when the EV of competing holds is tied), do we somehow have more relevant information?  If so, you might want to file that number away.Well, that might be the answer for the old 10/7 100.17% version of Double Bonus, but it would be different for just about any other game, including other DB pay schedules. If the straight flush paid 400 coins like on some really old super-paying machines, then you
would have to consider what it takes to throw away a pat 98765 straight flush and up your breakeven all the way up to 152,755,450 coins.What does the first holdable hand mean?  The only pat hand would be a 5-card royal flush, which I would say is clear by the implication of your question.  You would always hold the most royal cards possible and never anything more or less in the scenario you outlined.  Of course when you had multiple Ts thru As in different suits or two royal cards in two different suits, you would still have a few interesting decisions if you were concerned with computer perfect strategy (e.g., with K`Q` QeJe Jc , though you would ordinarily like QeJe  better than K`Q`  but here you would hold K`Q`, because the offsuit jack of clubs penalizes the QJ too much.  In Deuces Wild, you would have to consider what it takes to toss all the 4 deuce hands + 3 thru 9 away, and so on, and so on.I think I will stick with my original answer that it is well over 100,000,000 coins. That will probably be true in most all games.I know, I screwed up again.  You said, "Never mind," and I answered anyway.  I hope you don't hold that against me too much.