RF On A MG Machine??????

[backsider]

The bottom line is to play VP machines based on the math and
the integrity of the RNG chips, the casinos and the manufacturers with the
expected return  based on the paytable.
However, there is a possibility, while probably remote,  something may be awry.



 OTABILL, its my understanding from another expert source that this little nervous pack of true believers here wouldnt be able to sleep tonight once they read the last this paragraph. Havent you heard, its impossible to alter anything for fear of jail time or being shut down? Damn those who would say tax revenue would go down or thered be more unfortunate people in the unemployment lines! From another point however, Ive read that the other camp feels non random games are perfectly legal under the regulations that are fed to us on the internet as well as under the ones that arent. So is anything really being done against any law? No one from either side has shown proof either way, just constant puppetting  of what they are told to read by the creators.

[Frank Kneeland]

[QUOTE=backsider]
 
Shadowman, you do have problems. Take note how Frank addresses disagreements without defensive posturing, personal attacks, sweating, or losing it.  No ones taking your cereal away. Trust me.

 
I had a Uncle that was a master at telling you off to your face and you thanking him when he was done. [/QUOTE]I hope that's not what you think I'm doing. I try to provide the best knowledge I have at my disposal. It's easy for me not to get too worked up about anything, because whether or not anyone listens doesn't impact my life.If I held on to my knowledge and 20+ years of gambling experience, I'd feel guilty. As long as I share, I have a clear conscience. If as a result of sharing, I did harm or stepped too hard on the beliefs of others, I'd lose that benefit.I try to help, nothing more, nothing less.

[Frank Kneeland]

and with Frank that one must "believe
they {VP machines} are fair and random."I'm not sure it's perfectly correct to say I "believe" machines are fair and random. If I really believed that I would not have done numerous tests on them to make sure they were.My current thinking is that every time I have looked at VP machines I saw nothing to reject the null hypothesis that chance alone was responsible for my results with greater than .01% certainty. This means I'm 99.9% sure from direct observation that they are fair and random.It's not what I want to believe, but the evidence is overwhelming, if one has the tools to gather it. And gather it you must if you want to be sure.Inherently, I'm much more in Backsider's camp of believing that if casinos could gaff machines they would. I have not seen too many examples of the better angels of our nature in the gaming industry.I believe casinos only refrain from gaffing machines because they believe it to be in their best interests. If proof got out that machines were not fair and random, it would be bad for business. As long as that is true, and casinos know it, we are safe.The other issue protecting us is that it is not necessary for casinos to gaff machines for them to make a profit. Poor inherent return and bad play do the job just fine, even with totally random and fair games.~FK

[New2vp]

New, I didnt read your post because its such a long-looking diatribe that could only have been invested in because you are not happy with the way things are going. You often get like that when disturbed.  PS, Id check it for spelling errors but whats the chance you didnt do that too?That's no problem.  Based on experience, the points that I raised will likely be equally valid on your next series of posts.  And you are remaining consistent in following the Standard Reflection Techniques:"11.  When direct hits are scored, change the subject or repeat techniques 1-10. "And I never spellcheck when I include quotations from your posts.  I don't want to make the software work that hard.

[shadowman]

I guess someone did take his cereal away, and I dont think he slept very good at the thought of it.
 


Another content free comment from backsider. It seems you are only capable of aimless nonsense. I presented you with several facts that support my position. You present nothing, nada, zip, zilch, zero. You do realize this makes your position rather tenuous? Or, do you think making silly assertions about my sleep supports your claims of non-randomness? Somehow, I wouldn't be surprised if you did.
 
Instead of claiming you "believe" some nameless group of randomness deniers, why don't you present some evidence to support your position? Show everyone links to where IGT's or Bally's machines have been gaffed. Just one reference. No? You've never seen one but you still base you're beliefs on this rumor?
 
On a side note, It's interesting that Frank has done some testing of VP machines. I've never gone that far, but I proved to myself that the advertised returns of machines were valid. I programmed several games (JOB, FPDW, JP) to see what they returned. I've also done strategy creation to understand the nuances of strategy plays. If one wants to really understand what's happening they need to get into the details.

[royal flush]

is  he telling the "undenable truth"

[edog743]

To me BACKSLIDER Frank gave you an out and you slapped him in the face with it. Shadow and New offered methods they have used. You again attempted to piss on their heads. To no avail I might add. I said before and I will say again DO NOT POKE THE BEAR. you son have attempted to shove it up their six and came out the other end looking like a fool. Quit while you have some dignity left. Or face the cosequences.

[royal flush]

do you really think the casinos or game makers are going to risk a multibillion dollar business to cheat you out of a thusand dollar royal. they dont need to people play shots and junk vp paytables and many people dont play correctly ( the reality in gambling as in  life find the edge and exploit it) i used to be a card counter then in the 80s came the age of vp with 2 dollar fpdw plus cash back about 1.25%+ 3+ percent promos "banked slot" games which micky crimm did well at now with vp fading i play live poker and the stock market by "booking" options writing puts and calls. many folks on this forum share some of their plays so dont insult and learn something. frank seeks large progressives shadowman uses various plays which he finds i also use various plays. and we have all shared ideas on this forum worth a million royals

[faygo]

[QUOTE=faygo][QUOTE=backsider]
 
Shadowman, you do have problems. Take note how Frank addresses disagreements without defensive posturing, personal attacks, sweating, or losing it.  No ones taking your cereal away. Trust me.

 
I had a Uncle that was a master at telling you off to your face and you thanking him when he was done. [/QUOTE]

I hope that's not what you think I'm doing. I try to provide the best knowledge I have at my disposal. It's easy for me not to get too worked up about anything, because whether or not anyone listens doesn't impact my life.

If I held on to my knowledge and 20+ years of gambling experience, I'd feel guilty. As long as I share, I have a clear conscience. If as a result of sharing, I did harm or stepped too hard on the beliefs of others, I'd lose that benefit.

I try to help, nothing more, nothing less.
[/QUOTE]
The effect was the same. Sorry I was mistaken about your motive. Will not  make that error again.

[Frank Kneeland]

I would like to point something out...Backsider is skeptical about the randomness of machines.Skepticism is good...In the absence of proof, one should always ere on the side of caution, and here the cautious approach would be to believe that machines are unfair and non-random until proven otherwise.Since Backsider lacks the math skills to prove to himself that VP machines are fair and random, the best stance he can take with the information available to him is to believe otherwise. For him, he's actually taking the best stance. The only problem I have with Backsider is how he is acting upon this knowledge.If one believes machines to be non-random and unfair, the only logical course of action would be not to play them...AT ALL. If I thought this for even a second I'd never play again.Believing machines to be gaffed and still wanting to play them are to me mutually exclusive concepts and perfect examples of double think.So, for me, the 400 pound gorilla in the room that no one seems to want to talk about is:Why would anyone play a game they knew to be unfair???If we can answer that, or better yet, if backsider can soul search and answer it himself I feel something really productive will come out of all this pointless sparing.FK