Draw Timing Change, is it possible?

[FloridaPhil]

I've been thinking too much about the RNG and wonder of it's possible to do something to affect the timing of the chip in a way that can turn around a losing day.   When playing VP, it seems like you get into a rhythm as you play along.  It’s either a good rhythm or bad.  If you stop the RNG exactly when you touch the draw button, it seems like you should be able to change things ever so slightly by changing the timing of your draws.  I realize the chip is sequencing millions of times a second.  Any input on this?  Just wondering…

[onemoretry]

The RNG is going to generate a result.  There is no way of knowing in advance if it will be a good one or not..  There is nothing the player can do to affect that result, either positively or negatively - whatever happens, happens.
 
So, in my opinion, the answer is no. 

[Frank Kneeland]

In theory you can change your next dealt hand by waiting.

The thing is you are changing it from an unknown random hand to an unknown random hand. If you can't understand how pointless that is I can't help you.

[shadowman]

One way to find out is to try different timings many, many times and see if your results are better or worse.
 


Of course, if the results are different then it would also prove the machines were not random. And, if the machines are not random then there's no way of telling what kind of results you should get.
 
Finally, if you really believe a machine is random then what you are thinking about is equivalent to saying you could change the long term results of coin flips by tossing the coin higher in the air.

[FloridaPhil]

Random is random no matter what you do. It just seems like random means "You Lose" to me lately. 

[shadowman]

Random is random no matter what you do. It just seems like random means "You Lose" to me lately. 


 
Hey, I've got an easy solution. Just don't play on the days you're going to be unlucky.
 
That's really the key to winning. Avoiding your bad days. Think about it. Your results on any given day are simply based on your timing that day. If you only ever played on those good days you would win every time.
 
Now, all you have to do is figure out in advance which are your good days. I'll leave that easy part to you.

[SleazyRider]

FloridaPhil, As I interpret your post, you think that the machine shuffles the deck continually until you hit the DEAL button, then deals you 5 cards and continually reshuffles the remainder of the deck until you hit the DRAW button, when it deals out the number of the drawn cards.  So you can affect the draw by how long you wait to hit the DRAW button. As I understand it for a single play machine, when you hit the DEAL button, the 5 card deal is selected as well as the 5 possible draw cards.  So your fate is sealed on the DEAL button. It does not matter how long you wait to hit DRAW, you will get the same cards.  I think that this interpretation is implied by Shadowman and Frank_Kneeland's answers, but they might want to comment explicitly on whether this interpretation is correct. This does raise an interesting question about how the draw cards are dealt in a multiplay machine (3, 5, 10, 50, 100), and whether that could be affected by the DRAW timing.

[New2vp]

FloridaPhil,  As I interpret your post, you think that the machine shuffles the deck continually until you hit the DEAL button, then deals you 5 cards and continually reshuffles the remainder of the deck until you hit the DRAW button, when it deals out the number of the drawn cards.  So you can affect the draw by how long you wait to hit the DRAW button. As I understand it for a single play machine, when you hit the DEAL button, the 5 card deal is selected as well as the 5 possible draw cards.  So your fate is sealed on the DEAL button. It does not matter how long you wait to hit DRAW, you will get the same cards.  I think that this interpretation is implied by Shadowman and Frank_Kneeland's answers, but they might want to comment explicitly on whether this interpretation is correct. This does raise an interesting question about how the draw cards are dealt in a multiplay machine (3, 5, 10, 50, 100), and whether that could be affected by the DRAW timing.Most modern machines employ constant shuffling on both the deal and the draw.  As to how your expectations are effected, let's modify Frank's answer slightly.The thing is you are changing it from an unknown random hand to an
unknown random hand.  The expectation of the first unknown random hand is based on the pay schedule, let's call it x.  The expectation of the second unknown random hand is also based on the same pay schedule and is equal, so it too must be x.  Thus, the expected difference in changing your timing is x  - x.  Now, I know it has been a long time since most of us have taken algebra, but when you subtract any number from itself, we get zero.Now the next part, after the deal, is trickier and it is the difference in the expectation of the first unknown draw from the expectation of second unknown draw.  Whether you have a machine that works on the draw either (1) as Sleazy Rider said or (2) as I described, the expectation of both, is based on the cards that were dealt AND the pay schedule.  Generally, the expectation after you see 5 cards is going to be different than before.  But whether you wait or not, whether the cards are fixed at the press of the DRAW button or the DEAL button, the expectation is the same.  In this case, we can use a different letter, y.  But the "algebra problem" is the same; now we have to figure the expectation of waiting is y - y.And, with multi-hand, we simply have to do the same algebra problem, 3, 5, 10, 50, or 100 times.  The difference in expectation will always be 0.Random is random no matter what you do. It just seems like random means "You Lose" to me lately.  I can see by the winking emoticon that Phil is trying to be whimsical in his frustration.  The thing is, no matter what x is, we know that our investment is usually 5 coins (multiplied by 3, 5, 10, 50, or 100, if we try multi-play).  So, our expected profit ON EVERY HAND is going to be x - 5.  When x < 5 (x is less than 5), then x - 5 < 0 (x - 5 is less than 0), so we have an expected loss.  Granted with the right amount of luck the ACTUAL profit can be positive.But what may be more important here than EITHER the expected profit being negative OR the ACTUAL profit being DIFFERENT than the EXPECTED profit is that the expected profit on every hand is the same regardless of whether you wait to press the button or not OR whether the machine deals the draw cards as Sleazy Rider says or not.Take more time to press the buttons when you are playing a negative game.  That, believe it or not, will mean that your expected losses per hour will be less than they would be if they didn't wait.  (I hope you can see that the previous sentence is true and it doesn't confuse you or take emphasis away from the rest of the post!)Taking longer between hands will NOT change the expected loss per hand.  But since you will be able to play fewer hands, your expected losses will be lower.

[New2vp]

A corollary to the last couple paragraphs of the previous post:  When playing at an advantage, it hurts your per hour expected profitability to wait longer between button presses.

[shadowman]

A corollary to the last couple paragraphs of the previous posts:  When playing at an advantage, it hurts your per hour expected profitability to wait longer between button presses.


 
Well then, it appears that hitting the buttons faster will change both the timing and improve profitability.
 
Seriously, if I remember right Phil doesn't have any positive games to play. So, in fact, playing slower would improve the long term results.