Objective in playing VP

[OTABILL]

I believe one of the problems here is perspective. Naturally, everyone wants to win. How important winning is, however, depends on one's objective. The pros and others who are, to use your phraseology, "math-inclined", focus almost exclusively on playing VP for profit. Some of us play VP for entertainment, as a stress reducer or for other non-profit reasons and a good session does not always entail selecting the machine with the best paytable.For example, if one likes DDB and the best odds in the casino are on a JOB machine, which machine should one play? The pros, etc. would undoubtedly opt for the JOB. For my wife and I, it would be the DDB which is what we like. We are not fond of JOB. We are there for an enjoyable experience, hopefully profitable, but not dependent upon walking away with a fortune. If we come out ahead, fantastic. If not, we have had a night out at a budgeted and reasonable cost. Going to a play/concert and dinner would cost us money as well. No one would question us going to a Broadway show and a fine restaurant versus an elementary school production and dinner at McDonalds based solely on cost. The same holds true from my perspective playing VP at the casino. Others may feel differently. I appreciate the advice provided by the experts as I am sure others do as well. But if I (or anyone else) makes a decision based on math or other factors, one should not bash or otherwise denigrate that decision. Its ones personal preference based on objective - pro or amateur.  

[shadowman]

I appreciate the advice provided by the experts as I am sure others do as well. But if I (or anyone else) makes a decision based on math or other factors, one should not bash or otherwise denigrate that decision. Its ones personal preference based on objective - pro or amateur.

 
Speaking for myself, I don't "bash" anyone for how they play. What I do is react to people who claim that the math is wrong or machines are fixed, etc. without any evidence to back it up.
 
I suspect many people interpret this as bashing their method of play. I think this often occurs because at least one of the individuals that makes some of these claims turns around and asserts that statements supporting the math are somehow attacking other individuals. I would ignore people who make those kind of claims.

[Frank Kneeland]

Two
Hunters One Goal

Two hunters go into the woods. One
hunts to feed his family. The other hunts merely to hang a trophy on
his wall. Very different goals, right? One is doing it for fun and
sport, the other to survive. How different would you expect their
techniques to be, and who do you think would be the better
hunter??Their techniques might well be identical if catching
their prey was their ultimate true goal. Doesn't really matter if
it's going on a wall, or on a dinner table. You'd also expect the
subsistence hunter to take things a little more seriously and be
better at bringing in the kill, after all, his life depends on it.At
the end of the day, why they hunted makes little difference to how
they hunt.The same cannot be said for gamblers. Pros focus
on bringing home real cash. Non-pros focus on bringing home "fish
stories".Pro or amateur gamblers may indeed have
different goals, but if "winning" is what's fun, then the
methods used by pros would provide the most chance to win, and by
extension also provide the most chances for “fun”.The
problem is recreational gamblers are not honest with themselves or
others about their true goals, and instead employ a myriad of self
deception techniques to feel like they are winning when they are
really losing overall. It's all about hitting jackpots, regardless of
the cost, and spinning temporary loss reduction as, "wins".
Further, they are forever hitting the reset button and forgetting the
past, so they can sugar coat their future.The methods used by
pro gamblers for record keeping and play determination have no need
for self deception, but as an unfortunate side-effect shatter these
illusions, so they get relegated to the stack of unwelcome reminders
of unpleasant reality—instead of being taken as good advice.

If your goal is having fun, and you
define fun in gambling as “winning”, then how the pros play would
be the best path for you to achieve your expressed goal. If pro
advice isn't your cup of tea, then something is amiss in how you are
expressing yourself and real winning isn't your true goal.

If real winning truly is the
source of your fun in gambling, then why on earth would you not want
to play in such a way as to maximize your changes of being ahead??? I
believe the sad answer is that for most, what they want is not “real
winning”, they'd rather have the imitation stuff, because it is
easier to achieve. Of course that is just my opinion.

~FK

P.S.
Here's
something that's not my opinion:
Gambling
“as
a stress reducer” was mentioned. This is listed in the DSM-IV as
the fourth symptom of pathological gambling, and considered one of the
worst reasons to gamble, because of the negative feedback loop it
creates. I'm devoting an interview with one of the foremost researchers on the subject in the world, Dr. William G. McCown, and
should have it posted here within the month.

[Frank Kneeland]

P.P.S. I have no issue with, nor do I see any issue with spending your entertainment dollar gambling.As long as you are honest with yourself and others that your are indeed SPENDING IT.The potential problems arise only when perception and reality diverge.Be happy, have fun.

[OTABILL]

P.P.S. I have no issue with, nor do I see any issue with spending your entertainment dollar gambling.As long as you are honest with yourself and others that your are indeed SPENDING IT.The potential problems arise only when perception and reality diverge.Be happy, have fun.

 As I have said before on this forum, my wife and I follow the axiom delineated by John Scarne years ago to treat gambling as a form of entertainment and plan on spending accordingly. Even though we have casinos 1/'2 hour away, we go 2 or 3 times at most a month (not including times just to pick up gifts or dine out). As far as being a stress reducer, that is how it is viewed by some and I included it for that reason.  The main reason I started this thread is that I am irked by all the negative commentary (of a personal nature) regardless of who is posting or on what subject. As the old song by War says, "Why Can't We Be Friends."  

[Frank Kneeland]

[QUOTE=Frank Kneeland]P.P.S. I have no issue with, nor do I see any issue with spending your entertainment dollar gambling.As long as you are honest with yourself and others that your are indeed SPENDING IT.The potential problems arise only when perception and reality diverge.Be happy, have fun.

 As I have said before on this forum, my wife and I follow the axiom delineated by John Scarne years ago to treat gambling as a form of entertainment and plan on spending accordingly. Even though we have casinos 1/'2 hour away, we go 2 or 3 times at most a month (not including times just to pick up gifts or dine out). As far as being a stress reducer, that is how it is viewed by some and I included it for that reason.  The main reason I started this thread is that I am irked by all the negative commentary (of a personal nature) regardless of who is posting or on what subject. As the old song by War says, "Why Can't We Be Friends."  [/QUOTE]We can indeed be friends. And remember my posts are not targeted at specific individuals and must account for the full spectrum of people with everything from great self control to none at all. When I talk about possible problems, that information will only apply to a tiny portion of potential readers. If it doesn't apply to you just ignore me, my girlfriend could give you tips on that.~FK

[OTABILL]

[QUOTE=OTABILL]
[QUOTE=Frank Kneeland]P.P.S. I have no issue with, nor do I see any issue with spending your entertainment dollar gambling.As long as you are honest with yourself and others that your are indeed SPENDING IT.The potential problems arise only when perception and reality diverge.Be happy, have fun.

 As I have said before on this forum, my wife and I follow the axiom delineated by John Scarne years ago to treat gambling as a form of entertainment and plan on spending accordingly. Even though we have casinos 1/'2 hour away, we go 2 or 3 times at most a month (not including times just to pick up gifts or dine out). As far as being a stress reducer, that is how it is viewed by some and I included it for that reason.  The main reason I started this thread is that I am irked by all the negative commentary (of a personal nature) regardless of who is posting or on what subject. As the old song by War says, "Why Can't We Be Friends."  [/QUOTE]We can indeed be friends. And remember my posts are not targeted at specific individuals and must account for the full spectrum of people with everything from great self control to none at all. When I talk about possible problems, that information will only apply to a tiny portion of potential readers. If it doesn't apply to you just ignore me, my girlfriend could give you tips on that.~FK [/QUOTE]
 The "Why can't we be friends" was meant as a general call to everyone on this forum. Just would like the rancor to go away. I read your post above and others elsewhere in this forum in the same vein, i.e. universal in intent. I am glad to be your friend. And hopefully with others as well.   My Scarne quote and following verbage was meant to reinforce our view of a night at a casino. Of course our goal is to win. It certainly magnifies and enhances the experience. The money comes in handy as well .  However, we also like to play and can have a good time even if we lose the amount we budgeted for entertainment. Concerning the latter, self discipline is essential as you noted. Lucky we fall into that category.  BTW, I don't intend to ignore you. I find your post enlightening and entertaining. I may not have given that impression, but we have benefited from your sage advice. For example, we are much more attuned to paytables and meters relating to progressives. We are more discriminatory in choosing when to sit down, walk away or even which casino to frequent.   

[Lucky Larry]

Objective 1: Enjoy doing something Sweet C and I really enjoy.... like playing video poker.

Objective 2: Win enough occasionally to increase our opportunities to meet objective #1.

Objective 3: Experience the human relationship opportunities (socializing, sharing with others wins and losses. and developing new relationships) while meeting objective #1.

Objective 4: Taking advantage of the "comps" we want that come our way meeting Objective #1.

How many of us can really afford to take advantage of being "comped" a room every night of a month. The give aways make nice gifts sometimes. Maybe a "1% er" will take pity on us and invest in us. A $5-10K a month investment in each of us should be an initial start. In turn we would commit to playing VP more often and sharing the gains.   


But, then we are simple people trying to enjoy life within our mental, physical and financial limitations. Hey, we make part of our two hour drives enjoyable by counting the number of hawks on the fence posts and telephone poles as we drive through the back roads and rice fields to the casino.

[faygo]

 Hey, we make part of our two hour drives enjoyable by counting the number of hawks on the fence posts and telephone poles as we drive through the back roads and rice fields to the casino.


 
For a varied experience, try counting tractors.

[BillyJoe]

P.P.S. I have no issue with, nor do I see any issue with spending your entertainment dollar gambling.

As long as you are honest with yourself and others that your are indeed SPENDING IT.

The potential problems arise only when perception and reality diverge.

Be happy, have fun.

All I know is, every winning session that I have had in VP, and I have had several, were on machines where the casino had the mathematical edge. I only play at large casinos, and on the Strip while in Vegas. I do not chase around town looking for a better pay table, but instead choose to stay in establishments where I can receive decent comps. While I may make a lot of casino visits in a year, I do not play enough hands on each trip for the overall math to work in my favor. My opinion  
As far as my style of play, I tend to enjoy VP games that have a higher volitilty, such as TDB. As such, I understand the need for a larger bankroll to survive the dips. I would guess, then, my goals are skewed more toward a big payout, rather than longer playing time.