Scouting for plays??

[patlives]

Hello, first off, thank you everyone for all of your help through the years. Ihave been lucky enough to find several playable games at my local casino(Ameristar KC) but they are quickly being removed. Ameristar is a very largecasino, with a bunch of machines. My question to you is, what is the best wayto scout a casino for plays? Do you check a single machine's schedule in a row,or every other one? Is there a systematic way to do a scouting trip that youguys have found to be easier?I feel good about the Job, BP, DB, and DDB paytables, but struggle with dueces,bonus dueces and other game paytables for payback percentage. I have put the old vpfree paytables pageas a bookmark on my phone to help. Just looking for some help and ideas on howto make this a little easier.I'm afraid that I am going to check 500 machines, find 0 playable double bonus or double double, and miss a high percentage play on some bonus semi-carney game.

[Frank Kneeland]

Hello, first off, thank you everyone for all of your help through the years. Ihave been lucky enough to find several playable games at my local casino(Ameristar KC) but they are quickly being removed. Ameristar is a very largecasino, with a bunch of machines. My question to you is, what is the best wayto scout a casino for plays? Do you check a single machine's schedule in a row,or every other one? Is there a systematic way to do a scouting trip that youguys have found to be easier?I feel good about the Job, BP, DB, and DDB paytables, but struggle with dueces,bonus dueces and other game paytables for payback percentage. I have put the old vpfree paytables pageas a bookmark on my phone to help. Just looking for some help and ideas on howto make this a little easier.I'm afraid that I am going to check 500 machines, find 0 playable double bonus or double double, and miss a high percentage play on some bonus semi-carney game.

Well the first thing you have to take into account is a standard cost benefit analysis. If you are a professional gambler that intends to play 40 hours a week once you find a good machine, then almost any amount of scouting is worthwhile. If you are not a pro that intends to play a LOT once you find something
good, then it isn't worth the time it would take you to find it.I have spent as long as six months scouting (and not playing) to find something worth doing, which then ended up supporting me for one and a half years, until it was removed. That time, what I found was in a convenience store. It was a progressive with several errors:1. The machines did not have the stated pay-table printed on their glass. 2. The jackpots reset too high. (2x on the 4K 2-4, 4 aces)3. And for some reason the meter-progressive was 3%.4. The progressives didn't always reset after you hit one.It came to about 104.5% all the time. Of course I waited for a little bit more and played only when it was around 106.%.The only way to notice these errors was through actual play. You couldn't simply look at the machines visually to see that anything was amiss.There are levels of thoroughness to scouting that you can't even imagine. And no matter how carful you think you are, you will still miss things. Scouting is as much an art as it is a science. You have to have a nose for errors.The best things in casinos are never there intentionally, and if you think casinos are perfect, remember they are run by people, and I've yet to meet a perfect one of those.The most successful real PROS I know spend as much as 50%-90% of their total time scouting and only 50%-10% playing. If there aren't entire days or weeks of your life spent scouting without putting a coin in a machine, you are probably not what I consider to be a pro. (Note: some play is required as a scouting expense. I wasn't counting
that when I said "without putting a coin in a machine". For instance, it
takes one or two hands played to check meter-rise.)~FKP.S. I do not consider standard AP's to be PROS. The term "PRO" to me is not interchangeable with "AP". The biggest difference to me is that AP's like to gamble. If you like to gamble, you'll never have the patience for good scouting.

[patlives]

thanks frank. i appreciate your insight. i think i'm what you would consider an AP. it would be great to find opportunities like you shared above, i am simply looking for a few decent pay schedules in a sea of awful! after conferring with my playing buddy, we are going to try to systematically check all of the pay tables. in your experience, have you found a certain game to be a "hidden gem" on multi game? i feel like i can quick check db, ddb, job, and bp pretty quickly and easily, but alot of the machines have bonus dueces, triple double etc that will slow me down. if i can find a good schedule on a game i am unfamiliar with i am more than willing to practice and become proficient. just looking for some tips on becoming a better "artist"

[Frank Kneeland]

thanks frank. i appreciate your insight. i think i'm what you would consider an AP. it would be great to find opportunities like you shared above, i am simply looking for a few decent pay schedules in a sea of awful! after conferring with my playing buddy, we are going to try to systematically check all of the pay tables. in your experience, have you found a certain game to be a "hidden gem" on multi game? i feel like i can quick check db, ddb, job, and bp pretty quickly and easily, but alot of the machines have bonus dueces, triple double etc that will slow me down. if i can find a good schedule on a game i am unfamiliar with i am more than willing to practice and become proficient. just looking for some tips on becoming a better "artist"Yes, inconsistency in pay-tables is a recurring theme. Basically you have to check every single machine, on every denomination. And yes, I have found many "errors". Sometimes, just a single overlooked machine in an entire casino.The best scouts make the worst players and the best players make the worst scouts. It's a simple situation of people doing what they enjoy more. Some people like the thrill of finding things more than actually taking advantage of what they have found. Others are so wrapped up in getting action they never scout. The best situation for a player is to find a person that likes scouting and partner with them, or pay them a finders fee for anything they find. It's well worth the price. A good scout is worth his weight in gold, but don't tell them that.May fortune  favor you, and may you find comfort and solace in all the lonely places you must walk.~FK

[patlives]

thanks frank. i am looking forward to the scouting trip!

[BillyJoe]

[QUOTE=Frank Kneeland]
I have spent as long as six months scouting (and not playing) to find something worth doing, which then ended up supporting me for one and a half years, until it was removed.

That time, what I found was in a convenience store. It was a progressive with several errors:

1. The machines did not have the stated pay-table printed on their glass.
2. The jackpots reset too high. (2x on the 4K 2-4, 4 aces)
3. And for some reason the meter-progressive was 3%.
4. The progressives didn't always reset after you hit one.

It came to about 104.5% all the time. Of course I waited for a little bit more and played only when it was around 106.%.

Well, Frank, I finally learned your secret - find a broken VP machine, and play it to death. I totally agree with that approach. Should one ever cross my path, I will definitely play it.  

[Frank Kneeland]

Well, Frank, I finally learned your secret - find a broken VP machine, and play it to death. I totally agree with that approach. Should one ever cross my path, I will definitely play it.There is a slight distinction between "broken" machines and the type I play. If a machine is intentionally set incorrectly by human error, then one may take advantage of it freely. If a machine is malfunctioning due to electronic or mechanical error, it is illegal to play them (if you know). It is often very hard for the casino to prove you knew the machine was broken when you were playing it, however I warn against using this as an excuse to try to get away with it. I've done just fine in the last 23 years and I did it all without ever playing an OP (over-payer). I have turned in many to casinos, so they could fix them.~FK

[royal flush]

well put you add new ideas to advantage play

[Frank Kneeland]

So as a direct result of posting about scouting I went scouting for the first time in two weeks.You know the whole practice what you preach thing...OMG...I found two dollar progressives over $10,000 and one over $16,000.I seriously owe "patlive" a free lunch or dinner or something for reminding me to follow my own advice.~FK

[spxChrome]

$10,000 isn't that crazy but the $16K I'd love to sit at that one for a few hours.  Reminds me of the time when the .25 progressive at my local casino got over $10K.
 

 
To really understand this, this bank of machines never got over $1,600 and regularly hit around $1,300.  On an odd week it may get to $2,500 and I think the most I had ever seen it in 20 years was $2,800. I played it for a few then got bored.  It finally hit 5 days later for like $10,300+ Thats alot of quarters.  Even at 8/5 wonder what the % was at this level