Scouting for plays??

[Frank Kneeland]

Frank... thank you for words on problem gambling.  I propose a 3rd kind of problem gambler that includes myself.  I am not a risk taker (safe driver, no speeding, no roller coasters, use coupons, 4 smoke alarms, mild mannered and responsible).  I do not consider myself anxious or depressed. Nor have I been abused.  Am not compulsive or a smoker or a drinker.  It is not relief from personal problems.  I am however fascinated with numbers, probability,  random events, weather, stories about the future, patterns in nature, math, game theory, chess, physics, etc.  Gambling holds a deep real fascination.  I trust in pay tables and even yelled "hooray for mathematics" when I held AAA2 and won. [It wins less frequently but has higher overall payoff, in triple double]  I have met other math brains who gamble too much as well.   They constitute a small but definite sub group. By the way, the danger is not so much money but rather how my brain is re-shaped to dream of odds and to ride this ship of numbers.  Oh oh....I have this casino coupon to redeem ....    Very interesting. I know several other folks that fit that description. One was the gentleman that figured out VP return without the aid of a computer before even the game manufactures knew it. This is also touched upon in my interview with Dr. McCown. I only posted an excerpt. There is a purity in numbers that often can't be found in the world at large. Mathematics can become a safe refuge from all things unsure and unknown. It's why mathematicians often have difficulty with relationships and anything they can't figure out on paper. I devoted a chapter of my book to this very subject. It's super important to have moderation in all things and even math can be taken to extremes. You know Newton died a virgin.If you have any questions let me know.If I could do it all over again, I'd go back and remove all my omissions. ~FK

[backsider]

  And backsider your point about telling us that you are military intelligence served what purpose?
 I guess about as much purpose as Bob D. having the need to tell us how much money he says he has and makes and where it supposedly comes from. Odd, you didnt ask that one. Or maybe its not unusual for you to read on a forum where most players play nickels quarters and dollars to have someone pop on and say he lost $70000 in January playing $25vp and $10000 on the Super Bowl and says its no biggie, when most of us dont even make that much in a years salary. Then no one even whispers anything when the same person tells us he "knows" hell be a winner by years end.Whats that for, are we suppose to all feel better and idolize him more now that we all know itll all work out in the end? I know Frank is trying to help us by showing how bad decisions in gambling arent as good as good ones, and how a lot of us who make those decisions are prone to problem gambling. Well I play about once every 3 weeks. From what Im reading Bob D. lives, eats and breathes video poker, but because he plays in what are called positive situations, hes fine as wine and clear as beer. I think it would help us a lot if he described how a player such as that leads the pack in the problem gambling area, so more of us wouldnt inspire to be like him. Im a generation and a half behind him and I want to enter my 50s and 60s and beyond without the vp monkey on my back. 

[faygo]

Pretty simple. Just stop playing VP. Your choice.

[BillyJoe]

[QUOTE=Tedlark]   And backsider your point about telling us that you are military intelligence served what purpose?
 
I guess about as much purpose as Bob D. having the need to tell us how much money he says he has and makes and where it supposedly comes from. Odd, you didn't ask that one.
 
Or maybe its not unusual for you to read on a forum where most players play nickels quarters and dollars to have someone pop on and say he lost $70000 in January playing $25vp and $10000 on the Super Bowl and says its no biggie, when most of us don't even make that much in a years salary. Then no one even whispers anything when the same person tells us he "knows" hell be a winner by years end.Whats that for, are we suppose to all feel better and idolize him more now that we all know it'll all work out in the end?
 
I know Frank is trying to help us by showing how bad decisions in gambling aren't as good as good ones, and how a lot of us who make those decisions are prone to problem gambling. Well I play about once every 3 weeks. From what I'm reading Bob D. lives, eats and breathes video poker, but because he plays in what are called positive situations, hes fine as wine and clear as beer. I think it would help us a lot if he described how a player such as that leads the pack in the problem gambling area, so more of us wouldn't inspire to be like him. I'm a generation and a half behind him and I want to enter my 50s and 60s and beyond without the vp monkey on my back. [/QUOTE]
One thing that I have learned, Backsider, from traveling to Vegas over the years is that everything is relative, and no matter how much money you have, there is a whole gaggle of people out there with a lot more than you. So I do not focus on that, since in order to get bigger wins, you have to risk more money. Playing at a level that is comfortable for you is key. You can be a better VP player playing nickels than a player who is playing a $100 machine (IE John Daly, the Pro golfer), it's just that your wins will be commensurate with your wagers.
One nice thing about Vegas in general, and VP specifically, is that there is room for everyone.

[Frank Kneeland]

I guess about as much purpose as Bob D. having the need to tell us how much money he says he has and makes and where it supposedly comes from. Odd, you didnt ask that one. Do keep in mind these two points:1. Bob's comments were not "out of the blue" they were in direct reply to statements made about him which he obviously felt were incorrect. It is an incredibly natural and hard to fight human tendency to defend oneself.2. If we accept for a moment that people always act in what they perceive to be their own best interest and his post obviously had a negative effect where you are concerned. Why then might this be so? In other words if his intent was not to upset people, why are people upset? No one would try deliberately to anger people. My guess is it is because people are misjudging his motives. Sometimes it's hard to reverse-engineer a person's motives from their actions. In this case if you try to come up with a motive that doesn't involve deliberately angering people, I think you'll be closer to the truth.I know Frank is trying to help us by showing how bad decisions in gambling aren't as good as good ones, and how a lot of us who make those decisions are prone to problem gambling.IMPORTANT INFORMATION PLEASE READ THISAll the information the psychological community has on problem gamblers comes to us from looking at late stage (stage 2&3) pathological gamblers that have bottomed out and sought out help. You used the word "prone" and we can't really use that word since direction of causation is unclear. We know that late stage gamblers have (with near 100% correlation) comorbid disorders related to decision making, but for all the psychological community knows, problem gambling might make you prone to these issues. It is not known if one causes the other, or if the other causes the one. Or if either causes either. Correlation does not imply causation. They are therefore termed "risk factors". Nothing more can be said at this time with definitive scientific backing, and for obvious reasons no one is looking for people with these cognitive distortions, bankrolling them, and seeing if they'll develop problems.
Well I play about once every 3 weeks. From what I'm reading Bob D. lives, eats and breathes video poker, but because he plays in what are called positive situations, hes fine as wine and clear as beer. I think it would help us a lot if he described how a player such as that leads the pack in the problem gambling area, so more of us wouldn't inspire to be like him. As I see it the "problem" here is you are assuming Bob is trying lead the pack in the problem gambling area. He isn't. Almost none of his advice is targeted towards problem gamblers and where it does find them by accident it is almost always misunderstood and misapplied. Under no circumstances should one attempt to apply the stories or advice from professional gamblers to problem gamblers. In fact there is really only one treatment for gambling problems in America today and that involves total abstinence and cognitive behavioral therapy. I'm a generation and a half behind him and I want
to enter my 50s and 60s and beyond without the vp monkey on my back.First you need to know for sure whether or not you have a problem. Neither you, nor I can help you there. Due to the dynamics of problem gambling one rarely if ever knows they have a problem until it's too late. You would want to get the opinion of a professional.Good news: if you check and find out you don't have a problem, there's no downside to having checked. Since from your own words you have said you wish to avoid problems, this is the best way to achieve that. Get a professional first hand opinion. Nothing less will do.And this falls back to what we were discussing earlier. Checking to see if one might have a gambling problem if one gambles regularly is a GOOD IDEA. It remains a good idea even if it turns out there's no problem. The only bad decision is not making sure. It's exactly like looking both ways before crossing the street. (EXACTLY)No one's ever going to accuse a person of being an idiot for going to the dentist for a check-up, if it turns out they don't have any cavities.~FK

[BobDancer]

Frank wrote: 1. Bob's comments were not "out of the blue" they were in direct reply to statements made about him which he obviously felt were incorrect. It is an incredibly natural and hard to fight human tendency to defend oneself.  Thank you for pointing that out, Frank.  One thing about forums where many posters participate: Even if you are directly responding to a slight from one person,           1.    The first person will immediately change focus and starting sending out multiple slights from other directions.                 2.    Other posters will object to parts of the response --- often inserting other slights into the posts. Now, instead of having one slight out there, there are several. There are not enough hours in a day to follow each thread and respond to all, because each response will generate lots more responses. You can debate with one person who plays fair. You can't debate with dozens of people at the same time each of whom is changing the debate in a different direction On other forums, such as vpFREE, I've learned to let the slights go. Defending myself simply made me a bigger target. Having dozens of posts a day either attacking or defending Bob Dancer hardly makes a forum an enjoyable, educational place to hang out.  I started posting on this forum because videopoker.com is one of the sponsors of my radio show. Mike Fields and Ernie Moody, among others at videopoker.com, have been valued friends for years. Mike Fields has asked me a few times to have a presence in these forums and I am complying with this request. videopoker.com has been a friend to me and my career. I'd like to return the friendship. When somebody says that writing books and hosting GWAE implies that I can't really be a successful player --- what do you recommend I do?        1.    Respond like I did   (I felt my response was appropriate. If you don't argue that Drew Brees can't be a successful quarterback because he does commercials, you can't argue that the fact I host a radio program is evidence that I'm broke and unsuccessful.You've seen the aftermath this creates)         2.   Respond:  "Nope. You're wrong. I'm very successful" (This response would have generated negative criticism as well. Trust me. I've been down this road. And without expanding the argument, nobody would see the fallacy of the statement I was responding to)         3.   Ignore the comment (I could --- and have done so hundreds of times and Frank has even asked me why I ignore such negative comments so frequently --- and people keep repeating that I can't possibly be successful so why should they listen to me?)         4.  Boycott the forum ---(The folks at videopoker.com are friends and sponsors. Boycotting the forum is a VERY unattractive option to me.)          What would suggest I do? Bob               

[janemichaels]

Frankly, I'm glad to see you on forum, Bob. You sure helped me with my vp play.   

[Frank Kneeland]

         What would suggest I do? Bob          You might try honestly stating your dilemma, listing the options you have considered, and then asking the folks on the forum for advice on how you should handle it.No need to thank me.~FKP.S. Sorry, I couldn't resist.

[backsider]

billyjoe thank you, your post was spot on. Frank, I know Bobs comments werent totally out of the blue, but no one asked him to expand on his net worth or what part of his income comes from where, or to rub in his ability to lose $70000 and label it meaningless to a bunch of vp stiffs like me here.  Besides it making little sense for a grown and wealthy man to be wasting time and money on video poker, my opinion is such antics send a bad message to regular players. You seem good with peoples minds, and you always tell us how vp pros wouldnt be caught dead telling us how much they win or make. Is it my imagination or does he revel in always telling the vp community how wealthy he is and all? In a short search I found several other places where hes done that. Jeez Louise! Now maybe you can see where the red flag came from. I believe him when he says hes an expert at video poker. But the rest is just a story to me. I dont believe he intentionally tries to upset anyone. Hes more like Alec Baldwin, he wants and needs to have people like him, and hell go to any length and stretch any truths to achieve that goal. I was wrong, Im not saying Bob is trying to lead the pack in the problem gambling area. He doesnt address this in the few articles Ive read, but how can someone who apparently plays all week long (limits dont matter, ask the penny players) an spends what looks like most of his spare time talking and writing about vp and gambling, not have a problem? I think he does, and Id feel better if he were more like you and talked more about it. Im trying to like him, but coming across in a shroud of arrogance and making some of us feel like the little people isnt doing it. I saw where he put in a post  after mine but Im not going to read it. Its probably more proof to me anyway, that he is one of the industrys best storytellers. Pros with big names have no reason to be bothered by or respond to a nobody like me, IF they are being honest.  Do I have a gambling problem? I dont really know, but out of the $20,225 I won from the Cannery a few nights ago, I sent the $20000 check back home to my wife to freeze in her personal account. Someone said Id inevitably give it all back because I dont play good paying games or whatever. No I wont because my yearly gambling budget is only $10000.I know this doesnt answer the question, but I think a real problem player would have that money burning a hole in his pocket.  

[Frank Kneeland]

@backsiderFirst off: That may be the only time anyone has ever offered "being more like me" as advice. I have alerted the appropriate media.Second: Bob is in a damed is he does damed if he doesn't situation.  I choose to go the route of never talking about my results, and as a result have had countless people question my authority to talk about VP related matters, because they question whether or not I've been successful. Since I won't say either way, it leaves the door open for doubt. At least with my method people can't question my claims because I don't make any.Bob choose the other path of validating his skill as an instructor with his own personal success. This leaves the door open for people to question his claims. There's no winning this war.In essence there is NO way either way to close the door on doubt. Especially for those that want to break down the door and believe what they will.The only way to understand this is by trying to put yourself in his shoes and playing the what if game. Imagine for a moment you were him and everything you were saying was true. Now try to imagine how you'd prove that to others, when they were determined to twist your words and doubt everything you say. And lastly try to imagine how frustrating that would be.In the end there are two possibilities:1. You could be right2. You could be wrongSince YOU can't be absolutely sure of either, try to be mindful of the effects your words are having in the event that you aren't right. Anyway, that's my last useful advice on the subject.