An Interview on Problem Gambling Prevention

[shadowman]

Can pro gamblers, making a living gambling, do it so much it disrupts aspects of their normal lives? Absolutely!

How then could we judge what is normal work ethics, and what is over the threshold of obsession and "problem"? (Wow...tough question! I know enough to know I can't answer that in my life-time.)



 
There's a term for obsessive workers. They're called workaholics. I knew many of them in the past who would spend an inordinate amount of time at their jobs. I don't consider gambling to be all that different for those that have the talent to be pros.
 
That doesn't mean there aren't folks who try to become pros that don't know what they are getting into. Of course, that also applies to many jobs.

[royal flush]

professional gamblers whom do really make more than 51% of their earned income can not by defination be problem gamblers of which you are myself i make more in the legal field although not as enjoyable, for me it is a hobby that i make a few bucks more on live poker

[royal flush]

any player whom gets the disclipline to play games that he/she has an edge and plays them correctly whether finding promotions or 100% + progressive games can not be a problem gambler as they are avoiding losing games. you and i will disagree on the point that the the theripist is "talking his book" giving an sales pitch

[backsider]

[QUOTE=backsider]
Whats THAT got to do with someone who apparently from his own writings, cant wait to get up in the morning and go out to chase promotions in order to play a machine for a ton of time?

 
It's called a job. It's what he does for a living. Hopefully, you get up in the morning and go out and perform your job to the best of your ability. What you just tried to denigrate is exactly what a good professional gambler should be doing. That's how they make a living.
 
Simply because you hate those who have been successful while you have failed won't change a thing.[/QUOTE]

As usual you are not accurate. These guys dont gamble for their "job". Frank appears to push buttons and use his extensive knowledge of a card game in exchange for payment. Hes already said he does not risk his own money in any kind of gambling scenario. Bob D. appears to work for casinos, sell things, hold classes, consult & advise, and do just about any odd job having to do with the gaming industry for a living. His endless play seems to me only to be a problematic by-product of all that.

I also do not hate anyone for any reason, why did you say something again so mean-spirited? I am also not a failure in my profession. Even playing vp has been kind to me of late.

[Frank Kneeland]

As usual you are not accurate. These guys don't gamble for their "job". Frank appears to push buttons and use his extensive knowledge of a card game in exchange for payment. He's already said he does not risk his own money in any kind of gambling scenario. Bob D. appears to work for casinos, sell things, hold classes, consult & advise, and do just about any odd job having to do with the gaming industry for a living. His endless play seems to me only to be a problematic by-product of all that.
Though it is true that my income comes from salary, the activity I'm getting paid to do is "gambling" and the people paying my salary are professional gamblers, and I am aware of what the team makes since I do a lot of the paper work. Anyway none of that is important to what I thought we were trying to determine, which was the line of demarcation between problem and no-problem as it pertains to professional gamblers. It's a tricky topic. I think what might be useful is if I give you a couple of diametrically opposed real life examples of people I know on polar opposite sides of the spectrum. These are real people that I have known closely for very long, though I won't use real names.No-Problem: This guy was working as a night stocker at a super market and never had much time for a life since he was always working overtime or sleeping days. When I knew him in high-school he was what you'd call "active". A person with lots of hobbies and very athletic. He spent a bit too much time playing games and socializing during his formative years which left him under-skilled for a high paying career. He hated working at the supermarket.Gambling for him was a panacea. He picked it up fast and joined me working for the team. He was able to make twice as much with about half the hours and he got to work when he wanted, and sleep when he wanted. With the extra time this afforded him, he took up bicycling and joined the Las Vega Wheel-Man Club. He took up skiing and during the winter months always went on at least a ski trip every week. He decided to go to college and learn a career to supplement his gambling income and hedge against possible changes in the casino industry. (If suddenly playing progressives stopped being profitable he wanted to be ready with a plan B).  Somewhere along this journey he found himself a beautiful young wife and now has FIVE children. He continues to play VP when it's more profitable than his normal job, but only if it is. Basically he treats all his skills as "things I can make money doing" and picks whichever pays the best with the least hours. His biggest concern these days is keeping his work load low so he can spend time with his family.Much like me he dislikes video poker and derives no enjoyment out of playing it. He does it only for profit and unlike me he is self employed and does "gamble". He's a textbook case of someone with their head-together a great life, great family and pro-gambling has made all that possible for him.Problem: This person has been gambling professionally for going on 35 years. The only other real jobs he's had in his whole life were ambulance driver, (in his late teens) and poker dealer and poker room manager. He also did a stint in Reno running a progressive slot team (a small one by my standards). He always LOVED gambling and happily blew his entire paychecks in his own poker room (or across the street) when he got off work. During this time he went through three failed marriages and ended up with 4 children none of whom he got to see much.After getting surprise custody of his two boys he suddenly realized his lifestyle would not do to support a family, but what to do? He knew even then that quitting gambling was not an option for him. It was all he could do and all he enjoyed. He committed himself to learning how to beat the game. He cut out playing under 100% games and devoted himself to turning his obsession into a job.Now 15 years later his kids are off to school and doing well. He never remarried and hasn't really had a girl-friend of any kind since becoming a full-time AP. Though his children ask for nothing, the time he got to spend with them was extremely limited. He was a good providing and absent father.He does not remember the last time he took a day off from gambling, because if he did have free-time the only thing he'd want to do is gamble. He does not watch TV or read books, or go out, or vacation, etc... He does not enjoy fine food, though he gets enough comps to feed a small town. He'll blow and unlimited comp for 4 on a buffet for 1, because it's fast and gets him back to the machines.If you ask him if he has a gambling problem he will tell you, "absolutely yes!!!" But for him there is quite literally nothing else he can do. The irony is he could afford treatment for his addiction, but if they succeeded in curing him, he'd go broke almost instantly. He clearly has a gambling problem and would be the first to tell you so himself, it does not extend to losing money, but having no life whatsoever beyond playing machines in my opinion clearly says, "issue" unambiguously.------------------------One of these people clearly has a problem. The other clearly doesn't have a problem, unless too many children counts. Somewhere between theses two representational examples lies the line between problem and no-problem. Good luck finding it. I'm thinking it's more of a smudge than a line, and it's under a rock with no moss.~FKP.S. And if you know these people I was talking about please do not use their real names. Thank you.

[royal flush]

the second person although a winning player the gambling hurts his personal relationships i mentioned that in my prior posts i feel that this persons problem is not gambling as he is obsessive compulsive. the traditional problem gamblers lose alot of money and end up broke

[edog743]

Mr. kneeland, I have a Question. Where is the casinos obligation start and end with a problem gambler? Granted they are there to make money, But is there not a moral obligation also? Or a casino host who knows one of their clients cannot afford their losses? Just thought I would throw that out there.

[backsider]

Everyone who gambles more than reasonable amounts of time has a problem with it. Saying that someone who goes after promotions and plays with some kind of a theoretical edge does NOT have a gambling problem, is avoiding reality and is only giving excuses for their actions. Super denial. Frank I understand what you say about how you play the game. Your 35-year Problem example looks to me like hes in a no-way-out situation, and CLEARLY he will rue the day he took up gambling when he ages and finds no SS, no government or private pensions, and no company contributions to his savings accounts if he even has them. THAT is what I call a serious pathological gambler with a very big problem. I wouldalso  like to see the public proof that he is ahead by any amount, which Im assuming you have seen since you identify him as such. Or are you just theorizing?

[Frank Kneeland]

the second person although a winning player the gambling hurts his personal relationships i mentioned that in my prior posts i feel that this persons problem is not gambling as he is obsessive compulsive. the traditional problem gamblers lose alot of money and end up brokeI'm back home with about 15 min to blow so here's a couple of extra posts.We disagree here. I think it is possible for professional gamblers to have gambling problems and I do not draw the line at winning or losing. Dr. McCown agrees with me. He also stated to me in an email that if a professional gambler did have a problem, the medical community would have a devil of a time diagnosing it since the DSM-IV classification would essentially have to be tossed out the window.

[Frank Kneeland]

Mr. kneeland, I have a Question. Where is the casinos obligation start and end with a problem gambler? Granted they are there to make money, But is there not a moral obligation also? Or a casino host who knows one of their clients cannot afford their losses? Just thought I would throw that out there.Any obligation to help problem gamblers would have to be a moral one and on the individual casino employee. Casinos are only required to keep those "when the fun stops" pamphlets around and their legal obligation is minimal past that.