trip from hell

[ravenbynight111]

 Just met family in Vegas. I have not been in 5 years and will not be going back in the future the town is a tourist haven.The casino had few people gambling and the machines at about 5 casinos we just horrible. The first part of the trip was nightmare with the airline I spent 18 hours getting there and checking in to my room. My sister and brothers flight was just as bad. had to change planes and 9 hours from point a to b.I stayed at the Wynn, nice place and the rooms were great. I had 2 rooms comp and that was a problem with my sisters room for the 2nd night.I am going to resolve that today. Lets get on to the gambling. I am a real good at vp, but even my skills could not help any of us on this trip.The Wynn has the worst machines i have ever seen. Stay clear of this place at all costs.I even went over to the red rock and played for about 6 hours. Just a few players playing vp and talked to few of them and the same story. The casinos are raping everyone and they do not care.I lost my ass at vp at the red rock, but my saving grace was two slot machines that i got a lot of money back and they also give you cash back on the slot machines when you hit a certain tier.I got back 25 dollars  six times and 175  once.Red rock is a nice place easy to park and a great casino lot of machines.Next the Bellagio, my brother and his wife were staying along with one of my sisters. Vp was just dead there also, Paris and the Las Vegas Hilton.All my years gaming i have never seen anything like this.I will stick with going to Lake Charles,last year i made 4 trips and hit 4 royals,last but not least the 5 of us sat down to all play, just jacks or better.The best hand dealt to any of us was 1 full house and the best hand anyone had was a boat also.5 players 90 minutes or so at 5 machines for that period  and no 4 of a kinds.Also Vegas prices are insane.i got it out of my system but i am going to GAMBLE WERE THEY WANT GAMBLERS COMING TO THERE CASINO. 

[Eduardo]

Mind if I ask what pay tables you were playing?

[Frank Kneeland]

@ravenbynight111 I'm confused by your post as well. Are you saying the pay-tables are worse or are you saying that how you did was worse?You referenced hitting 4 Royals in 4 trips to Lake Charles and seem to be linking that with the machines being good there, but of course casinos can't alter Jackpot frequency, only payback. What you hit is up to chance, how much you get paid for what you hit isn't. The how much part is what casinos can and do alter, but you seem to be talking primarily about the "how many" part.Could you clarify?

[onemoretry]

 .I even went over to the red rock and played for about 6 hours. Just a few players playing vp and talked to few of them and the same story. The casinos are raping everyone and they do not care.I lost my ass at vp at the red rock,


 I visited Red Rock for my first time about four weeks ago.  I played full pay deuces wild for about two hours or so (not very many places left to play that game).  I had one set of deuces, and was up by $150 when I left. I did not feel as if I had been raped.

[ravenbynight111]

 To be clear the pay tables were fine,my point is when you put in a hundred or two hundred or 300 hundred and the machines just eat the money in no time at all. You have no chance to win,no matter how good of a player you are.This is not sour grapes this is just the facts about vegas.Losing happens in gambling,we all know that. When i walk in to a casino and no one is winning and the casino gals are not handing any IRS W 2-G forms, what that tells me no one is hitting. People who gamble tend to always talk about there wins and not there loses. We always here about the payback the casino must adhere to. Well always remember this its only a crime if someones complains and they can prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. Also the these gaming boards knows who butters there bread.It is not the players its the casinos resorts. Frank also I mention above 5 of us played side by side forr about 90 minutes or so. Like i said the best hand dealt on the primary draw was a boat. The best hand for all five machines was a boat.90 minutes lets say at 350 hands per hour. That is 525 hands total per person which comes out to 2625 hands and I play a lot faster than the rest of my family. You do the math if you think that is a good return.each one of my family put in and avg of 250 dollars on 25c jacks or better machine.They all lost there investments. My point of the post was to just tell the guys what i seen.

[Eduardo]

The pay tables at Bellagio were fine? It must have changed since I was there last.

[Dealt4oak]

Wynn worst machines? Ive seen alot worse. They offer 7/5 BP and 9/5 DDB. There are places that only serve up 6/5 in any game. The jumbo dollar cash hits you had that were $25 and $175 have nothing to do with tier, they hit randomly for anyone playing the dollar slots. VP is hit and miss, some days I cant do anything to get a few 4oaks and some days I hit as much as 20 in a session. On thing Ive learned playing vp over the years it is very streaky. I had a good 2 month streak at GVR and now its hard to hit. I would think someone that reads a site like this would understand that. Play a good game and it will eventually work itself out. I have a friend that thinks 10/6 DDB that pays over 100% means he should win every time, far from reality.

[Frank Kneeland]

 To be clear the pay tables were fine,my point is when you put in a hundred or two hundred or 300 hundred and the machines just eat the money in no time at all. You have no chance to win,no matter how good of a player you are.This is not sour grapes this is just the facts about vegas. Losing happens in gambling,we all know that. When i walk in to a casino and no one is winning and the casino gals are not handing any IRS W 2-G forms, what that tells me no one is hitting. People who gamble tend to always talk about there wins and not there loses. We always here about the payback the casino must adhere to. Well always remember this its only a crime if someones complains and they can prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. Also the these gaming boards knows who butters there bread.It is not the players its the casinos resorts. Frank also I mention above 5 of us played side by side for about 90 minutes or so. Like i said the best hand dealt on the primary draw was a boat. The best hand for all five machines was a boat.90 minutes lets say at 350 hands per hour. That is 525 hands total per person which comes out to 2625 hands and I play a lot faster than the rest of my family. You do the math if you think that is a good return.each one of my family put in and avg of 250 dollars on 25c jacks or better machine.They all lost there investments. My point of the post was to just tell the guys what i seen.2625 hands is a trivial number of hands and insufficient to make any determination at all of any kind. It would be perfectly normal and expected to have runs as you described on fair random machines. If it didn't happen once in a while I'd worry.At the frontier I once went 16 hours without hitting a 4 of a Kind or higher on a 2x 4K promotion. On these same machines, I kept lifetime records and the overall frequency of 4K's came out to 1 per 418 hands, with a 500,000 hand sample. The expectancy is about 423. My bad run was just a day in the life of normal random machines and nothing to worry about.You are playing a tiny insignificant number of hands and thinking how you did means something. It doesn't. TRUE FAIR RANDOMNESS is far streakier than we'd like it to be, and when people are exposed to true randomness they almost always think it isn't, random that is.When scientists tested humans ability to spot and correctly identify true randomness the error rate was about 88%. That's 9 out of 10 times people were wrong and thought random numbers were non-random and visa versa.You can't do it in your head, it's impossible. Next time take copious notes and at home on your computer apply the chi squared test and then share your results.I'm not criticizing your observations, only your ability to make conclusions based on them. If you turned this in as a scientific report all you'd be able to say without the teacher giving you a failing grade is, "insufficient sample--no conclusions possible". The fact that you are making conclusions without enough information to do so is troubling.I know you were just trying to share an observation, but these types of observations are not only pointless they are misleading because of informational bias. We hear from the people like yourself for whom things did not go typically, and we never hear from the people for whom things went exactly as expected.Anyway, one cannot judge a machine good or bad by how they have done on it, as the past in not a predictor of the future where randomness is concerned.Don't let your own mind lead you astray. We are genetically hard wired to look for patterns in all things, it's normal natural and takes real effort to overcome.~FK

[BillyJoe]

 To be clear the pay tables were fine,my point is when you put in a hundred or two hundred or 300 hundred and the machines just eat the money in no time at all. You have no chance to win,no matter how good of a player you are.This is not sour grapes this is just the facts about vegas.Losing happens in gambling,we all know that. When i walk in to a casino and no one is winning and the casino gals are not handing any IRS W 2-G forms, what that tells me no one is hitting. People who gamble tend to always talk about there wins and not there loses. We always here about the payback the casino must adhere to. Well always remember this its only a crime if someones complains and they can prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. Also the these gaming boards knows who butters there bread.It is not the players its the casinos resorts. Frank also I mention above 5 of us played side by side forr about 90 minutes or so. Like i said the best hand dealt on the primary draw was a boat. The best hand for all five machines was a boat.90 minutes lets say at 350 hands per hour. That is 525 hands total per person which comes out to 2625 hands and I play a lot faster than the rest of my family. You do the math if you think that is a good return.each one of my family put in and avg of 250 dollars on 25c jacks or better machine.They all lost there investments. My point of the post was to just tell the guys what i seen.

Just a bad run, Raven. Next time could be better. I had a nice 2011 for my Vegas visits from FLA, and I am a strip-only player, so no juicy paytables for me.

[Lucky Larry]

raven,
Sorry the family's trip to Vegas was so bad from flight to VP.   Hopefully, you'll make it up on your next trip to Lake Charles.   Sweet C and I will hopefully will be able to head over in early May (family obligations are keeping us home for a while-maybe we can finally meet up). Those 98% LC returns may look pretty good compared to some of the Strip returns.

LL