trip from hell

[Frank Kneeland]

[QUOTE=Frank Kneeland]
I'll be away from posting for the rest of the day. So good luck our there. And to Ravenbynight I just wanted you to know I used to be exactly of your mindset and I just wanted to spare you all the dateless nights and failed laborious mathematical work I spent in my early years. If you do decide to learn your way around the math needed to prove that machines aren't random and find something, I look forward to your report. Remember my info is over a decade old. I'd love to hear from someone that had done more recent work on "the problem".
 Then you must not have been a poster on that wizards of Vegas forum when RS offered to show all his detailed test results of many pages from when he had a Nevada vp machine at his home last year and he says he has the data from a few billion virtual hands or something like that that proves the machines are not as random as we think. As I recall, once he spelled out what he was exactly going to show them, the math people wanted him to pay their travel expenses and book rooms and feed them to come look at it and discuss those results, which looked like another way of his critics saying they'd rather be safe than sorry. Then he either quit or the wizard banned him after that.  People SAY they really would like to see something of this sort, but when it comes right down to it, they really dont.The easy way out all the time,  At least thats what I got out of it. [/QUOTE]I'm sorry backsider, but I do not comment on RS related posts either to the positive or negative. In fact I do not like to talk about any specific individuals, especially if they are not part of the discussion.I will talk to you about you. I'll talk to ravenbynight about ravenbynight. But I won't talk to you about her or her about you, etc...If you have a personal belief you'd like to discuss the door is always open.I will not discuss other people's beliefs with you, if for no other reason than 2ond hand information always gets so distorted that the discussion rarely bares fruit. Working off what one person's perception of what another person said is too flawed.We have enough comprehension problems around here with direct conversations between just two people...tell me that's not the truth!You said, "People SAY they really would like to see something of this sort, but
when it comes right down to it, they really don't. The easy way out all
the time,  At least thats what I got out of it."If you are talking about other people, I can't comment.I for one would really like to see someone do this in 2012 and post their results, but I'd like to see it done in as scientific way as possible, so it provides us with answers and doesn't simply raise more questions. I really would! I think it would be very interesting.As I stated before the work I did on it is more than a decade old...things change.~FK

[shadowman]

Then you must not have been a poster on that wizzards of vegas forum when RS offered to show all his detailed test results of many pages from when he had a nevada vp machine at his home last year and he says he has the data from a few billion virtual hands or something like that that proves the machines are not as random as we think. As I recall, once he spelled out what he was exactly going to show them, the math people wanted him to pay their travel expenses and book rooms and feed them to come look at it and discuss those results, which looked like another way of his critics saying theyd rather be safe than sorry. Then he either quit or the wizzard banned him after that.
 
People SAY they really would like to see something of this sort, but when it comes right down to it, they really dont.The easy way out all the time,  At least thats what I got out of it. 
 

Yeah, we all know about his claims of 5th card flip-overs. Complete and total nonsense as your, I mean his, meeting with webman demonstrated.
 
And, you just have to love this one ... "he says he has the data from a few billion virtual hands or something like that". I'm sure he does, I suspect there just as virtual as most of his claims ...as in completely made-up.
 
BTW, how long did it take him to play those billion hands?

[backsider]

Youre just displaying your hate and jealousy of the man as your thread below illustrates. Now ask yourself, just what point were you trying to make in your rant here?

I read his and the wizzards and his math friends back and forth in real time last year, and if your detractor didnt have the goods then he would never have offered it to such a well known and respected vp personality. Thats what I came away with. I found it strange that they were all taking shots at him, but when he said hed meet with them to show them what he discovered they all wanted him to pay them for the privilege.

How long did it take to play billions of hands? We can go through thousands of scenarios at our on-base simulators in minutes while all the data posts and can be printed here. I expect billions of simulated hands running through the test setup he said he had wouldnt take even a month. He said he had the machine for three.

Maybe you were one of the math hot shots who was smart-mouthing him until he called you on it? Sure looks like it.

[shadowman]

Youre just displaying your hate and jealousy of the man as your thread below illustrates. Now ask yourself, just what point were you trying to make in your rant here?
 
Just responding to your comment with the facts, as usual.

I read his and the wizzards and his math friends back and forth in real time last year, and if your detractor didnt have the goods then he would never have offered it to such a well known and respected vp personality. Thats what I came away with. I found it strange that they were all taking shots at him, but when he said hed meet with them to show them what he discovered they all wanted him to pay them for the privilege.
 
When dealing with a proven liar it's only reasonable to laugh at them when they make ridiculous claims. Not only that, no one who claims they work in military intellience would fall for that nonsense either. However, someone posing ....

How long did it take to play billions of hands? We can go through thousands of scenarios at our on-base simulators in minutes while all the data posts and can be printed here. I expect billions of simulated hands running through the test setup he said he had wouldnt take even a month. He said he had the machine for three.
 
But, a simulator is not the real thing. So, it provides nothing. It's useless, it's worthless unless you know exactly what you are simulating. Since IGT does not release their code, there's nothing to simulate. Only the naive would believe that kind of nonsense.

Maybe you were one of the math hot shots who was smart-mouthing him until he called you on it? Sure looks like it.
 
Nope, but thanks for thinking of me as a math "hot-shot".

[Frank Kneeland]

I believe this thread has taken a negative turn. I see a lot of talk about what doesn't work or can't work, or hasn't worked, but I see no talk at all about what would work and solutions to the question which seems to be on a lot of people's minds, which is, "Are machines fair and random?". Instead of nay-saying information that proves nothing, why not talk about what would prove something?I'm starting a new clean thread entitled, "What Would It Take" and I invite everyone to join me there, so long as we keep it about how to answer the question and what would constitute good science.~FK