Roveer 5/20 Harrah's AC

[opalineopaline]

Roveer,Great hits again!  Wonderful.Thanks for your money management tips.  I hope I remember them when I am in Biloxi in July.Your pictures always turn out so well.Keep it going.

[roveer]

Roveer, I always love looking at your pictures-great hits. Someday, i'll find a 5¢ or 10¢ STP that I can play. BTW: I think your new strategy is a smart move.

 
 
Thanks Larry.  I've seen .05 denoms on Double STP.  As a matter of fact I have one right in the middle of my STP row at Harrah's and when I'm really feeling beaten up I usually play it at dimes and sometimes even nickels.  Maybe look for it in DSTP or possibly in the Allstar machines that have a tab for STP.  Be careful it can be very addicitive.  I've played hundred play DDB with STP here on VP and I think a few times at Harrah's but talk about a drain when it's not working.  I know you play those 50 line machines and I've seen some wonderful pics from you on those.  I have to stay away because of my denoms but boy could that be a fun thing.  My denoms and your luck on those machines...  Whoofa!!!
 
Good Luck to you my friend and keep on hitting those dealt royals and deuces!!!

[BOOPSAHOY]

Congrats Roveer-beautiful hits

[rascal]

Congratulations on a nice run!!!
 
I think it is important for people looking at your photos to understand that a nice long STP run such as your's is a lot of fun and it is certainly exciting, but it's not a likely way to make any money.
 
I notice that you say you went home with some cash, but you didn't detail how much more you took home than you had when you walked into the casino.
 
I know of what I speak. I have had several significant STP hits, one of which put my handsome photo on the Wall of Fame in a Laughlin casino for 10 months. But for STP to be profitable for me, I would have needed to take the proceeds of that one really big hit and simply walk away from the game. Over time it wears away at you. STP wears away at you a bit faster than come other VP games, due to the reduced paytables. (I notice from your photos that you were playing on a 8-5 game, which will take your money in a hurry.)
 
This comment is not in any way intended to detract from your very nice run and the fun and excitement that I am sure you felt during that run. But, as you said you played all day for that run, it's unlikely that your net proceeds equaled anywhere remotely close to your gross winnings.
 
As long as you play STP with the understanding that it can be fun and exciting and that there are occasional big hits, fine. But please don't do anything to make our fellow VP.com posters believe that over the long run this can be a profitable game, because it is not. The math guys who developed STP did not develop it to give away cash. They simply developed it to give out big hits, while over time it keeps more of your money. So....if you can sit down, have lightning quickly strike, cash out, and leave forever, then STP is indeed profitable. In all other situations, it is not. Fun and exciting, yes. Profitable in a long-term sense, no.
 
Cheers, and congratulations on the hits!

[roveer]

Congratulations on a nice run!!!
 
I think it is important for people looking at your photos to understand that a nice long STP run such as your's is a lot of fun and it is certainly exciting, but it's not a likely way to make any money.
 
I notice that you say you went home with some cash, but you didn't detail how much more you took home than you had when you walked into the casino.
 
I know of what I speak. I have had several significant STP hits, one of which put my handsome photo on the Wall of Fame in a Laughlin casino for 10 months. But for STP to be profitable for me, I would have needed to take the proceeds of that one really big hit and simply walk away from the game. Over time it wears away at you. STP wears away at you a bit faster than come other VP games, due to the reduced paytables. (I notice from your photos that you were playing on a 8-5 game, which will take your money in a hurry.)
 
This comment is not in any way intended to detract from your very nice run and the fun and excitement that I am sure you felt during that run. But, as you said you played all day for that run, it's unlikely that your net proceeds equaled anywhere remotely close to your gross winnings.
 
As long as you play STP with the understanding that it can be fun and exciting and that there are occasional big hits, fine. But please don't do anything to make our fellow VP.com posters believe that over the long run this can be a profitable game, because it is not. The math guys who developed STP did not develop it to give away cash. They simply developed it to give out big hits, while over time it keeps more of your money. So....if you can sit down, have lightning quickly strike, cash out, and leave forever, then STP is indeed profitable. In all other situations, it is not. Fun and exciting, yes. Profitable in a long-term sense, no.
 
Cheers, and congratulations on the hits!
 Rascal,  I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume your intentions were good, but your post has really rubbed me the wrong way.  Most of what you say is true, but the way in which you did it just isn't working for me.  I composed 3 responses and I think this is probably the best way to leave it.  Guess nobody will ever know how much money I took back to the bank this morning.  Oh well.  

[rascal]

Roveer, I'm extremely sorry if my post rubbed you the wrong way. I am someone with a lot of casino experience from both sides of the table --- as a long-time player and as someone whose significant other for many years was in top casino management. I know for a fact that STP with the paytables shown in your photos cannot be a positive expectation game, unless the casino is somehow giving away comps and perks in amounts totally unheard of in America.
 
You have been exceedingly fortunate to have done well with STP and I commend you, I really do. But I would not want someone to look at the many photos you submit of winning hands (on poor paytables) and form the assumption that this is, over time, a game at which a profit is available. Over time, you cannot win on a <100% game unless the comps and perks push you into >100% --- no if's, and's, but's or maybe's. The night I hit for $80K on an STP machine in Laughlin, a young man sitting nearby told his wife to run to the ATM and get "everything" she could get, because "these machines are hitting." Sometimes people see a highly unusual stroke of fortune and assume it is typical. I do not want someone viewing your photos on this forum to assume your wins were gross vs net and then run to the casino with the rent money to play STP.
 
STP was very, very good to me with an unexpected stroke of fortune, and that is part of the excitement of casino gambling: anything can happen to anyone! But, no, not me and not you and not anyone can sit in front of a negative expectation STP game on a regular basis over time and win. Can't happen. If in fact you had a very fortunate day and came home ahead, I am happy for you. Based on my experience and the actual math, those sorts of days are occasional. Peace to you my friend and, again, my congratulations on the hits!

[rvegas70]

Rover

I am no bankroll manager expert by any means. I am the king of chasing. But also like you, I enjoy bringing it home. You mentioned you got your money back. Which tells me you dumped a ton of money in them. I start slow on $.50 denomination and work my way up. Seems to work better for me than losing early on $1.00 and higher machines.

[backsider]

What rascal says is sensible but not always true. Over my lifetime, Im about $6500 ahead playing paytables the sharpies frown upon. But I dont consider myself an addict either because when I play is usually not up to me.

It looks as if roveer plays as much as some of the sharpie APs say they play. I would guess he doesnt win or lose any more than any of them overall. Its all claims anyway and where has anyone ever proven anything about their play results outside of posting pictures or trying to use theory as an explanation of proof?

Just have fun roveer and look forward to more of those exciting hits. Plus we all LOVE the pictures. Dont let failed APs spoil it for you.

[BillyJoe]

Roveer, I'm extremely sorry if my post rubbed you the wrong way. I am someone with a lot of casino experience from both sides of the table --- as a long-time player and as someone whose significant other for many years was in top casino management. I know for a fact that STP with the paytables shown in your photos cannot be a positive expectation game, unless the casino is somehow giving away comps and perks in amounts totally unheard of in America.
 
You have been exceedingly fortunate to have done well with STP and I commend you, I really do. But I would not want someone to look at the many photos you submit of winning hands (on poor paytables) and form the assumption that this is, over time, a game at which a profit is available. Over time, you cannot win on a <100% game unless the comps and perks push you into >100% --- no if's, and's, but's or maybe's. The night I hit for $80K on an STP machine in Laughlin, a young man sitting nearby told his wife to run to the ATM and get "everything" she could get, because "these machines are hitting." Sometimes people see a highly unusual stroke of fortune and assume it is typical. I do not want someone viewing your photos on this forum to assume your wins were gross vs net and then run to the casino with the rent money to play STP.
 
STP was very, very good to me with an unexpected stroke of fortune, and that is part of the excitement of casino gambling: anything can happen to anyone! But, no, not me and not you and not anyone can sit in front of a negative expectation STP game on a regular basis over time and win. Can't happen. If in fact you had a very fortunate day and came home ahead, I am happy for you. Based on my experience and the actual math, those sorts of days are occasional. Peace to you my friend and, again, my congratulations on the hits!
See, Rascal, this is where I get hung up, on the 'over time' element. You sound like you have a lot of sound, practical experience in the casino gaming area. I just do not know what 'over time' means? I understand, if you are a local to a casino, and play 4 hours a day, every day, then I could see where the math will work itself out. But what about a player like me? I live in a non-casino state (FLA), and travel to various properties to play. While I may make a  5-6 day trip, on average, about once a month, and play about 4-5 hours a day while there, I still do not feel as though that is a long enough play time for the math to play out. In my case, I still feel as though a good short run will overcome any pay table disadvantage that I have.
Now , I am smart enough to know that a 9/6 paytable is better for me than an 8/5 paytable, but does it really make THAT big a difference with my relatively limited play?
I would love for someone to tell or show me how MUCH play it takes for that pay table deficiency to really 'guarantee' losing.   

[shadowman]

I would love for someone to tell or show me how MUCH play it takes for that pay table deficiency to really 'guarantee' losing.   


 
There are no guarantees in gambling. There are only probabilities.
 
A 4 hour session 5 days a month at 600 hands an hour (extremely conservative) yields 12K hands a month. That's 144K hands at year. Now, assuming you play for another 20 years that's close to 3 million hands. Now, this included no multi-play and fairly slow play. Your reality may be double that number since we know you often play multi-play.
 
The way probabilities work is the more you play the higher the probability you will approach the expected return. For example, playing those 3 million hands would yield about a 99% probability of behind ahead playing FPDW. However, even playing full pay BP would yield a <1% chance of being ahead. So, in the end it's all up to you. Which sounds better?
 
The point is that playing a poorer paytable starts affecting your return on the very first hand you play and continues on from there. Sure, there will be bumps along the way, but the one has assume they will be very lucky to overcome the negative effects of the poor paytable rather than the continual positive effects of a good paytable.