Worst casino for video poker ever

[ko king]

I've been playing at Harrah's/Tunica ever since they bought out The Grand and even though they still have the same paytables the machines are not the same. I play a lot of vp and Harrah's has destroyed my faith in the game, until a couple of years ago it was tough to find an open machine but now very few people play there anymore. I saw a post by someone on this site a while back that said Tunica was one of the most regulated places in the country and I found that to be an odd statement because I've never ever seen anyone from the Ms. Gaming Comm. there. I also play at another casino in a different state and they have people from the gaming commission there each and every hour of the day and they record every handpay and the machine number it was hit on. For over 10 years I have played $2 denomination vp at Harrah's and I really liked playing there but I can't afford thier vp anymore and simply no longer trust them. It may be random for all I know but too much random bad is hard to swallow and accept.

[billslim]

It seems to me as a computer programmer, that you can easily program a video poker machine to use a standard random number generator to draw the cards but then used another subroutine to check the hand to see if it is a 4oak, and possibly redeal the whole hand based upon certain criteria management sets in place. This of course all happens in a nano second.   This second subroutine could easily be turned on or off.  Unless the state has access to current source code, we will never know.

[backsider]

Billslim, our programmers around here tell me the same thing, and one of them has worked briefly for a machine maker in 2009. Theres so much strength given to the notion that casinos will close down or some other mysterious calamity might befall them if they chose a path that was unpopular, unfair, or even illegal, when we all know casinos are a big business, and they are hardly run by saints. All it takes is money to accomplish anything, and fair or not, how much more or less do you trust Wall Streeters vs. casino bosses?

This is not rocket science.

[Anuenue]

It seems to me as a computer programmer, that you can easily program a video poker machine to use a standard random number generator to draw the cards but then used another subroutine to check the hand to see if it is a 4oak, and possibly redeal the whole hand based upon certain criteria management sets in place. This of course all happens in a nano second.   This second subroutine could easily be turned on or off.  Unless the state has access to current source code, we will never know.

 This was probably the case on my recent trip to Vegas......All we could get were TRIPLES, that could not convert to 4oaks.....Never seen so many triples in all my years of going to Vegas......Bummer.

[jackwells]

Anuenue:  Where did you play? Strip or downtown, or both?

[spxChrome]

Sorry to hear about your dry run.  My last trip I was there 3 days.  Hit 2 Royals, AWAK 2x and little 4's playing the only TDB machine they have.  Its the one right next to the $5 progressive in HL.  I visit NOLA several times a year and they are usually payoff pretty good.  But your right the paytables are pretty lame but since they have no direct competition they can do it.

[spxChrome]

I've been playing at Harrah's/Tunica ever since they bought out The Grand and even though they still have the same paytables the machines are not the same. I play a lot of vp and Harrah's has destroyed my faith in the game, until a couple of years ago it was tough to find an open machine but now very few people play there anymore.
 I play in MS 98% of the time and I agree with you.  And you are right I have only seen the gaming commission at a MS casino maybe 2 or 3 times. About 2 years ago while I was playing they came into my favorite casino and changed the chips in a bank of VP machines I playe several times a week for 6-10 hrs a day.  And after they changed the chips the machines do not play the same.  Nothing else changed, the paytables stayed the same the games and denom stayed the same.  I asked what they were doing and they said they were changing out the chips.  I was like why??  Chips dont wear out they either work or don't.  Of course he didn't know he just said he was told by management to change out the chips. I played these machines 5 years before the change and now 2 years after the change and they do not play the same.  No doubt about it and every reqular will tell you the same thing.  Like you said you used to not be able to get a chair now the bank is dead even on weekends.  You used to be able to play all day and win or loose a little each session.  On the rare occasion you would win big or loose big.  Now its all dead unless you get rare HP.  So I can see them being 95+ payback before the change but now its like all or nothing.  Either a big hand or you go broke quick.  Another thing I noticed was I may get a SF once a week.  Now I seem to get them 1 or 2 times per session.        

[SaraTG]

It seems to me as a computer programmer, that you can easily program a video poker machine to use a standard random number generator to draw the cards but then used another subroutine to check the hand to see if it is a 4oak, and possibly redeal the whole hand based upon certain criteria management sets in place. This of course all happens in a nano second.   This second subroutine could easily be turned on or off.  Unless the state has access to current source code, we will never know.



 
   I have always been skeptical of the "totally random" claim I hear from the casino industry.  I mean..How would you really know?  How do you test a video poker machine and KNOW that there isn't some deeply imbedded sub-program that controls things and can be turned on and off and hidden by some secret password?   I have been playing video poker machines since they were first introduced in like 1978 and after playing literally millions of hands I have a pretty fair grasp of when something seems "dead'.  It seems whenever the casino has one of those big drawing contest/give away days after like 12:00 it almost seems like some throws a switch and all the poker machines don't hit anything.   And after having 12 losing trips to Charles Town Races in a row I KNOW something isn't right there.  And it seems as if all the bigger jackpots I've hit were on machines right on the corners of the rows of machines as if they are programed to pay out more so the higher foot traffic in those areas sees people winning.    Even the "House Edge" flyer they give away at the ATMs hint the machines are programed and not random.  At first it says there are no such things as "hot" or "cold" machines and it's all random but yet 2 paragraphs later it says the machines are "programed to take in more than they pay out". Wait a minute. I thought you just told me they are completely random so how can they be "programed" to take in more than they pay out???   Color me skeptical.   (Sorry for the rant LOL)

[spxChrome]

Being a programmer I can tell you it is as easy as pie to program anything you want into an application.  I have even written my own windows based VP game.  It's not a far stretch of the imagination for their to be a few IF THEN ELSE statements in certain situations. However their are requlations and checksums on these chips.  I have read them a few years ago and all I was really able to find out was that Poker is random and the payback limits for slots has to be at least 75%.  I don't think anywhere in there it says poker must be 96% or 98%.  So from what I understand the only requlation is that it is random and its payback a minimum 75%.  Now the math people here will tell you certain games will payback 98.7 or 99.63 or what have you based on the paytable but that doesn't mean it has to by law.  Long as its paying back at least 75% the law is satisfied, so is it possible for a certain set of sub routines based on what the machine has done in the past 24 hours, what it has done this month, is the player using a card, does the machine have alot of existing credits on it already, did it just hit a Royal Flush.  The answer is yes, it is possible.  Does it actually exists, well that nobody knows.  They can make claims but I don't think anyone here has ever got a direct replay from IGT or Ballys.  In the late 90's I got a reply from IGT on how the cards are choosen and displayed after the draw.  But after numerous attemps to several different departments for the past few years I don't even get a thank you but thats confidential.  Just flat out ignored.  So really until we hear it from the horse the debate will continue.   

[backsider]

I find that interesting, and youre not alone in saying how "sub routines" are possible and probable in a vp machine. Ive read a lot of what the person shadow wants to believe I am has written. He mentioned how he tore down a new machine and thoroughly tested it, with confirmed findings of what youre calling sub routines. Thats one of the reasons I dont see things in quite the same manner as the APs do, and it causes some of them heartburn. But I think a discussion of this nature is healthy for all to read and make up their own minds about it.