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we seem to have a difference of opinion on Weather to trust the casino or not.The math is all find and dandy.But in the real world of greed and corruption, you have to ask yourselves a question.Was vp a lot easier to win 10 or 20 years ago.My answer is much easier without a doubt.Just to change gears a little bit last night my son and friends watch the fight and if you think this is no corruption in are world you are crazy.The outcome was a crime. Someone got rich.They don't build those billion dollar hotels, because the players are winning.
One thing to consider, Raven, when referring to 10 or 20 years ago is that the technology has changed. If I am not mistaken, the original single-line VP machines dealt 10 cards when you hit Deal - the five that you could see, and one card under each of the displayed cards. When you discarded, the replacement card was already there.
In today's technology, the RNG continues to run after the deal, so it is re-shuffling all the remaining cards until you hit the Draw key. Then, it deals the next card it has to replace the one you discarded. Of course, this is all at blinding speed.
My point is, the 'randomness' of the card to be drawn has really increased with the newer technology, making it virtually impossible to predict any kind of 'next card' outcome. That said, perhaps that works to the casino's advantage in getting those premium hands, since the card you are looking for is always on the move.
Worst casino for video poker ever
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BillyJoe
- Video Poker Master
- Posts: 3198
- Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 2:00 pm
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shadowman
- Video Poker Master
- Posts: 3587
- Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:42 pm
we seem to have a difference of opinion on Weather to trust the casino or not.The math is all find and dandy.But in the real world of greed and corruption, you have to ask yourselves a question.Was vp a lot easier to win 10 or 20 years ago.My answer is much easier without a doubt.Just to change gears a little bit last night my son and friends watch the fight and if you think this is no corruption in are world you are crazy.The outcome was a crime. Someone got rich.They don't build those billion dollar hotels, because the players are winning.
The casinos don't build or program the machines.
No major casino has ever been accused of illegally modifying machines and these casinos employ thousands of people with direct access to the casino's policies. Does anyone really believe that no one would come forward and out the casinos? How many people were laid off in the last 5 years? Why would they keep quiet?
State gaming commissions set regulations where casinos found to be in violation risk loss of their licenses if they were ever caught. Why would they risk multi-million dollar profits when they can accomplish the same objectives by lowing pay table returns (which has been done across the board over the last 10-20 years).
One reason it's harder to win is people pay very little attention to the pay tables and end up playing very poor games these days.
Occam's razor is all that is needed.
The casinos don't build or program the machines.
No major casino has ever been accused of illegally modifying machines and these casinos employ thousands of people with direct access to the casino's policies. Does anyone really believe that no one would come forward and out the casinos? How many people were laid off in the last 5 years? Why would they keep quiet?
State gaming commissions set regulations where casinos found to be in violation risk loss of their licenses if they were ever caught. Why would they risk multi-million dollar profits when they can accomplish the same objectives by lowing pay table returns (which has been done across the board over the last 10-20 years).
One reason it's harder to win is people pay very little attention to the pay tables and end up playing very poor games these days.
Occam's razor is all that is needed.
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shadowman
- Video Poker Master
- Posts: 3587
- Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:42 pm
My point is, the 'randomness' of the card to be drawn has really increased with the newer technology, making it virtually impossible to predict any kind of 'next card' outcome. That said, perhaps that works to the casino's advantage in getting those premium hands, since the card you are looking for is always on the move.
Random is random. There is nothing that "increases" randomness. Now, you could possibly argue that the older machines really weren't random and there would be a little truth to that statement. Without a continuously running RNG, machines really could have hot/cold streaks.
Random is random. There is nothing that "increases" randomness. Now, you could possibly argue that the older machines really weren't random and there would be a little truth to that statement. Without a continuously running RNG, machines really could have hot/cold streaks.
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ravenbynight111
- Senior Member
- Posts: 134
- Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2007 11:07 am
One of the guys was in Vegas last week played ultimate poker spent 4 days and lost his ass.Told me it was sad and he is a numbers guy. six hundred and some hands in row with out be dealt 3 of a kind on the primary hand.How random is that. For all you guys go over to the Wynn and play.I always here the strip is bad place to play.If you get the same pay tables as off the strip. It should make no difference where you play. As I posted before its is only a crime if someone complains and it can be proved the machines are not right.The gaming commission know who butters there bread.
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BillyJoe
- Video Poker Master
- Posts: 3198
- Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 2:00 pm
One of the guys was in Vegas last week played ultimate poker spent 4 days and lost his ass.Told me it was sad and he is a numbers guy. six hundred and some hands in row with out be dealt 3 of a kind on the primary hand.How random is that. For all you guys go over to the Wynn and play.I always here the strip is bad place to play.If you get the same pay tables as off the strip. It should make no difference where you play. As I posted before its is only a crime if someone complains and it can be proved the machines are not right.The gaming commission know who butters there bread.
Well, Raven, as I said before, why, then, would the casinos lower the VP pay tables? Why would they need to? As far as Ultimate X is concerned, that is a VERY volatile and expensive game to play if you are on a cold streak. Being dealt trips is tough anyway (not sure what the odds are, but I am sure somebody does).
The one area that I DO believe has changed is the higher-denom slots. It used to be that the higher-denom would have a better hit frequency than an identical slot at a lower-denom. I am not sure that is true anymore. But, I cannot prove it either way.
Well, Raven, as I said before, why, then, would the casinos lower the VP pay tables? Why would they need to? As far as Ultimate X is concerned, that is a VERY volatile and expensive game to play if you are on a cold streak. Being dealt trips is tough anyway (not sure what the odds are, but I am sure somebody does).
The one area that I DO believe has changed is the higher-denom slots. It used to be that the higher-denom would have a better hit frequency than an identical slot at a lower-denom. I am not sure that is true anymore. But, I cannot prove it either way.
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BillyJoe
- Video Poker Master
- Posts: 3198
- Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 2:00 pm
[QUOTE=billy joe] My point is, the 'randomness' of the card to be drawn has really increased with the newer technology, making it virtually impossible to predict any kind of 'next card' outcome. That said, perhaps that works to the casino's advantage in getting those premium hands, since the card you are looking for is always on the move.
Random is random. There is nothing that "increases" randomness. Now, you could possibly argue that the older machines really weren't random and there would be a little truth to that statement. Without a continuously running RNG, machines really could have hot/cold streaks.[/QUOTE]
You are right, Shadow. Poor choice of words on my part. I guess where I was going is that the more a deck is shuffled, the less likely there would be any patterns on draws. A continuous RNG does this, of course, better than the older machines.
Random is random. There is nothing that "increases" randomness. Now, you could possibly argue that the older machines really weren't random and there would be a little truth to that statement. Without a continuously running RNG, machines really could have hot/cold streaks.[/QUOTE]
You are right, Shadow. Poor choice of words on my part. I guess where I was going is that the more a deck is shuffled, the less likely there would be any patterns on draws. A continuous RNG does this, of course, better than the older machines.
