RANDOM NUMBER GENERATOR

[sam434343]

Okay let see if i can put this into words! When playing either DDB or TDB video poker under the old style RNG you get five cards off top of deck and depending how many you draw up to five get those of the top of the deck, so under this old way if you have one ace and nothing else to hold you draw four cards so to get either four ace or four aces with kicker it would all have to be in the first nine cards YES!? If you hold only one ace.what are the chances or percentage of those cards being in the first nine cards of a deck of cards? Now under the new RNG shuffle after your first five cards the deck continus to shuffle till you push deal button again now you get to reach into all 47 cards that are left int he deck of cards Yes!? NOT just four cards under old way. PLEASE  dont tell me the percentage is the same. If it is the same just dose not look like it should be! Old way had to be in the first nine cards new way you can pick out of 47 cards to make four aces or four aces with kicker. Well hope somebody can answer this question. Thanks Sam

[BillyJoe]

Well, Sam, I am not sure this is the answer you are looking for, but here goes. Your old way RNG chose ten cards (assuming a single line game) from a FULLY SHUFFLED 52 card deck. Your four Aces could have been in those ten cards. If they weren't, you have no chance at the four Aces that hand.  
 
Your new RNG gets five cards from that fully shuffled deck, and then selects replacements from the remaining cards, as needed. You have a chance at needed Aces from the remaining 47 cards.  
 
But if you think of each scenario as drawing one card at a time, I do not believe there is any difference. An Ace can get shuffled in or shuffled out both ways.
 
No math - just my thoughts.  

[shadowman]

An easier way to look at it the 4 to a royal situation. In the first case you have 5 more cards that were dealt initially that you haven't seen. There's a 5 in 47 chance that the card is in the unseen five cards. However, there's only a 1 in 5 chance that it is the first card. Therefore, you have 5/47 * 1/5 chance of hitting the royal. This comes out to 1/47. With the continuous shuffle you have one chance that the right card is on top out of the 47 cards being shuffled. Once again 1 out of 47.
 
It pretty much that way for everything which means the odds of hitting any result are exactly the same.

[sam434343]

Ok, Thanks for writing back billy and shawdow. Shadowman i understand what you are saying for a royal flush but what you are missing is that old way your cards are already selected, under the new way the out come is changed,  so in some ways i diagree with what your saying now you can reach in deck and get four two,four threes,and four fours for a kicker more cards to select from to make four ace with kicker, yes for a royal flush there are only five cards but for ace with a kicker lot more cards to pick from than from the old way RNG Okay under old RNG if your card was not the first card to make royal flush you lose now under new RNG you can reach in out of the 47 cards to get the one card to make RF were before you could not do that because the top cards were all set up in some ways i think this has changed the out come. My thinking and there is reason why gaming companys(enginerrs) changed the way there RNG does secound shuffle. Yes you are right in the math but what think you missing is old way if card not on top of deck if you only need one card to make RF you do not get RF now under new secound reshuffle you can can reach in to all those other cards(47) to make RF where as before you could not do that that is my point. Hope that makes more sence,I am not a writer LOL Sam

[shadowman]

sam434343, you are confusing "could" with odds. I "could" have won powerball last week for over $300 million, but I didn't.
 
Don't confuse a chance at hitting something with the true odds. At some point during the play of any hand your odds change. Under the old method of dealing that change occurred when you pressed deal. Now it occurs when you press draw. However, what you want to base decisions on is what you know. In neither case do you have any additional knowledge until you actually see the cards. Since the odds are identical there's really nothing you can do other than make the best holds possible.
 
Of course, if you could see the draw cards under the old method you'd be way ahead, but alas that is not possible. So, we can only make the best choice on what we know and move on.

[faygo]

Sam you forgot to include the old discussion  that wondered if the cards were in a stack or sitting behind each card that is displayed. Since neither scenario exists I wonder why the concern.

[BillyJoe]

Sam you forgot to include the old discussion  that wondered if the cards were in a stack or sitting behind each card that is displayed.
Since neither scenario exists I wonder why the concern.
My understanding, Faygo, is that the draw card sitting behind the dealt card is the old, old VP dealing mechanism, prior to ten cards being selected when the deal button is pressed,with five of them placed, in order, to be used as replacements for any discards of the five shown on the deal. 
 
Either way, even with the current continuous shuffle RNG, while the card you are seeking may be coming and going, the odds of the card being selected are the same, as Shadow said.
 
The nice thing about VP (except Joker games) is that it is played with a static 52-card deck. The odds of selecting a particular card at any particular point in a hand is just arithmetic. Getting that card is pure chance.      

[sam434343]

Okay i can see your math Shawdowman, you did not win powerball well maybe you should use some of your math skill to buy the winning ticket,goes to show math is not always almighty because you spend more money than you would win if mupltiple winners and the combination of numbers you would have to buy,sometimes math does not always add up right, yes the figures do but not in all cases. I did not either and i buy them for 20 weeks at a time. Case in point had math proffessor(he has passed away) over 25 years ago tell me this story Three men on business trip they all going share expences for a night stay at motel it is late 2 in the morning when they get there the bell hop only one working he said yes could share room total cost would be 30 dollars so each one of them pays 10 dollars each well manager come in around 6am and tell the bell hop you over charged the three men and gives him 5 one dollar bills and tells bell hop to give back the three men,well on his way up there he was little upset they did not give him a tip ealier for carrying there luggage so he only give back(3) three dollars one dollar to each man, so  now each has paid 9 dollars each and and he keeps two dollars for himself. WELL we can agree that each one of the men paid 9$ so three men times 9 equals(3x9)= 27dollars and bell hop keeps 2 dollars for himself so 27$+2$=29 dollars were did the dollar go? It gose to show math can be manipulated, the math teacher didnt teach us this but sometimes to show us you have go out side the box expand on things that not always 2+2 =4 this is a simple equasion, if we did not think out side the box we would not have the things we have today cars,computers,eletricity,medicine,the list goes on and on and for future generation will expand on math way beyond what we know today.Shadowman i agree with your math but you are missing more than you can see.

[Quad Deuces]

You have not presented an odds problem but an accounting problem.Book entries:Innkeeper's PerspectiveCash           SalesDebit 30      Credit 30Cash            RefundsCredit 5        Debit 5Net $25Thieving Dirtbag Bellhop's perspectiveCash           Theft RevenueDebit 2        Credit 2Net $2Guests' PerspectiveCash            Travel ExpensesCredit 30      Debit 30Debit 3         Credit 3Net -$27$27 offset by -$27 on the other side. Math doesn't lie and cannot be manipulated. 2+2 still = 4

[shadowman]

 It gose to show math can be manipulated, the math teacher didnt teach us this but sometimes to show us you have go out side the box expand on things that not always 2+2 =4 this is a simple equasion, if we did not think out side the box we would not have the things we have today cars,computers,eletricity,medicine,the list goes on and on and for future generation will expand on math way beyond what we know today.Shadowman i agree with your math but you are missing more than you can see.


 
Sam, it wasn't the math that was manipulated as QD demonstrated. It was the students that were manipulated by the teacher through an invalid comparison.
 
We see this all the time. People trying to manipulate others by tricking them with incorrect math. But that is not the fault of math itself, is it? It is simply that many people don't understand the math.
 
As for thinking outside the box, that is an over-rated, yet useful process. Unfortunately, that does not involve math. There is NO thinking outside the box with basic mathematics as it is what defines the box.