Dueces Strategy Questions

[FloridaPhil]

I play a lot of Deuces and am working to improve my play.  I use Video Poker for Winners to train and it's great, but it doesn't explain the rules... just tells you when you have made an error.   My question has to do with no deuce KQ, KJ & K10 draws.  I know it's about penalty cards.   One rule I have been able to figure out is to not hold these cards if you have another card of the same suit as the pair (flush penalty)  My problem is I don't understand the other types of interference (straight penalty).  Can someone explain this in a simple way?    I have other questions, but this seems to be the most common problem.  

[shadowman]

A straight penalty occurs when you discard cards that could have made a straight with the held cards given the right draw. For example, in all the king high situations a 9-Q discard is a straight penalty.

[FloridaPhil]

Let me summarize to see if I have this right.  In the case of a no-deuce KQ, KJ, K10 draw, discard all cards if you have:1. a card of the same suite as the two high cards. or 2. cards 9-Q   

[onemoretry]

[onemoretry]

What is the pay scale you are playing?

[FloridaPhil]

Most Common quarter & .50 game around here is 20-10-9-4-4-3-2-1.  Most common dollar game is 25-15-9-4-4-3-2-1.

[onemoretry]

I can't help much with the first pay scale (20-10--9-4-4-3-2-1), as I don't play it and have never learned it. The second one (25-15-9-4-4-3-2-1), which has several names (airport deuces, Illinois deuces, pseudo-NSU deuces), I know pretty well. The Bob Dancer-Liam Daily Winner's Guide to NSU Deuces Wild includes pseudo NSU.  It covers all the difficult hands in extreme detail. For the suited KQ, KJ and KT combinations, it indicates that drawing five new cards is better if there is a flush penalty and an ace plus a nine penalty, with some minor exceptions. 

[BobDancer]

A straight penalty occurs when you discard cards that could have made a straight with the held cards given the right draw. For example, in all the king high situations a 9-Q discard is a straight penalty.
 An ace is also a straight penalty to these 2-card K-high combinations. An ace and nine are lesser penalties than an unpaired Q, J, or T because they interfere with only one of the two possible straights (AKQJT or KQJT9), not both. Of the two, an ace kills these 2-card royal draws more often than a 9 does because of "Power of the Pack" considerations --- which is related to the value of drawing 5 new cards. The best information for understanding the Power of the Pack concept are either of my two Deuces Wild Winner's Guides. Another good source of information on this is my free Advanced NSU class on October 23 at the South Point. Of the two pay schedules mentioned here, playing 15-9-4-4-3 one coin at a time ($1 total bet) is higher EV than the quarter game played 5 coins at a time ($1.25). (Both EVs are WAY too low for anybody seriously trying to win.) Even though you will lose less playing the dollar game 1 coin at a time (play VERY SLOWLY --- you will lose less still), I promise you will feel very bad if you hit a 1-coin royal flush. Also, the Winner's Guides presume you are playing 5 coins. If you're only playing one coin the royal pays 250-for-1 rather than 800-for-1 so the strategy rules --- especially the ones concerning penalty cards --- are different. Bob

[FloridaPhil]

Thanks for the reply.  I own a copy of "A Winners Guide to Full Pay Deuces Wild" and have tried to read through it numerous times.  I have a fairly low attention span and found the syntax used in this book confusing and difficult to understand.    There has got to be a better way to explain VP strategy other than the alphabet soup method...The Video Poker for winners software is fantastic, but it gives inconsistent responses to the KQ, KJ & K10 Deuces Wild hands.  I suspected it must be the pay schedule or coins played that are causing the differences.   I play one coin dollars most of the time for the reason stated.   I've hit lots of royals in my life and getting $250 instead of $1000 doesn't bother me at all.It's interesting to note that Dan Paymar in his book entitled "Video Poker Optimum Play" states that these hands are worth very little and indicates you may be better off not playing them at all.   VPW says these hands are only worth 1-3 cents each.  I'm strictly a recreational player and playing negative expectation games, so I may stay with that rather than keep wondering. 

[Quad Deuces]

The pay schedule definitely affects things like whether you hold or toss RF2 K-high or 1 deuce RF3 A-high in Deuces Wild. VPFW gives completely consistent advice based on the pay table.  Note that the proper hold for a 250-coin RF is likely completely different than that for an 800-coin RF even if you don't change games.For instance, in Full-Pay Deuces, given Ks Js 3h 6d 8d the proper advanced strategy is to hold the KJ if there are no straight or flush penalty cards, which there aren't (additional exceptions apply).  I just checked with 1-coin bet and VPFW says draw 5 cards instead.They might only be worth 1-3 cents each but they happen all...the...time..  Holding correctly will result in hands that pay more than if you don't.I wouldn't be able to stand myself if I hit a short-bet royal.  You're probably right though.  Since you're playing negative EV games made worse by short-betting the pay table, worrying about K-high RF2s might not be where you should concentrate your efforts.