Dueces Strategy Questions

[BillyJoe]

[QUOTE=billy joe][QUOTE=Florida Phil]Have you guys had your Testosterone checked lately?  I think it may be a little high...   

I take my "T" every day, Phil. One squirt under each armpit.  [/QUOTE]
  
Actually, I do too (brand name Axiron).
 
For me this was never a discussion that got me angry. I merely corrected BJ when I felt misquoted.
 
The post in another thread that apparently initially set BJ off with respect to me was when I said his methodology was one that should only be used by someone who is able and willing to lose more than $10,000 a year playing video poker.
 
He was highly offended by that. He doesn't believe I can possibly know enough about his results to say such a thing.
 
But I do. I believe his posts have given us all a lot of insight into his competence as a player. I suspect he loses far more than the number I posted. His "stop win" and "stop loss" theories are worthless. I also believe I have studied the winning and losing process well enough to make these statements.
 
One slight caveat. He said he earned Seven Star status at Harrah's/Caesars and a similar status at MGM. My understanding was that he did that playing video poker primarily. Under that scenario, he surely was behind way more than $10,000. But my understanding about this might have been incorrect.
 
Elsewhere he indicated that he qualified for these tiers mostly by playing table games rather than video poker  --- and he also implied that his primary losses were from table games and not video poker.
 
That could be. Part of my calculation was that he played $1 million in coin-in per year to earn Seven Stars status. If he plays a lot less than this in video poker, perhaps his losses are less than what I surmised.
 
But certainly that would make his table game losses WAY more than $10,000. You can keep them under that amount if you're an expert card counter (and don't get 86'd) but I know dozens of professional card counters and BJ has WAY too many basic misunderstandings to be a successful professional gambler.
 
I'll guess we'll all find out rather quickly if he's going to keep his word and avoid responding to posts by me.
 
I hope he keeps his word. He calls me all sorts of unflattering things when he gets riled up. And really all I've said about him is:
 
     1.   He loses a lot more than he wants people to believe
      2.  He gets angry when somebody points that out, and
      3.  His money management theories are bunk.
 
      That's it. I don't consider those personal attacks, but he might.
 
Bob [/QUOTE]
Well, Bob, I said I was done responding to you, but you just can't quit, can you ?  Or do you just HAVE to get the last word in ? How can I NOT respond, at least one last time, when you continue to propagate such fabrications?
 
At least we have one thing in common - Axiron. Or are you going to use your VP "expertise" to 'prove' that I don't take that, also?
 
So, let me understand your points.
1. Saying someone CAN'T be what they say they are is not personal, even when you have absolutely NO KNOWLEDGE of the individual's casino playing habits, bankroll or game choices.  But, you do not believe that I should take offense to that. Sorry to disappoint you, and perhaps the readership of this Forum, but I DO take offense to that.      
2. Re-writing what you said in previous posts is acceptable behavior for you.
Example 1: From above "The post in another thread that apparently initially set BJ off with respect to me was when I said his methodology was one that should only be used by someone who is able and willing to lose more than $10,000 a year playing video poker."
Actual Post "If he has the wealth to lose tens of thousands of dollars a year to casinos --- and he enjoys the process --- then let him have his fun!"
Example 2: From above "Elsewhere he indicated that he qualified for these tiers mostly by playing table games rather than video poker  --- and he also implied that his primary losses were from table games and not video poker."
My Actual Post "My gaming trips consist of playing slots and table games, in addition to VP" At no point have I EVER talked about any gaming losses, only saying that the approach that I use for Money Management while playing non-positive EV VP games helps to minimize my losses, and on some gaming trips, yield a profit in my VP play. Purely a personal experience.  
Example 3: From above: And really all I've said about him is:
 
     1.   He loses a lot more than he wants people to believe
      2.  He gets angry when somebody points that out, and
      3.  His money management theories are bunk.
Actual Post: "He can NEVER get to the tier levels (7 Star and NOIR) that he claims" 
Example 4: From above: "He calls me all sorts of unflattering things when he gets riled up."
I do believe that, at one point, Bob, I called you 'arrogant'.  Beyond that, please identify the posts, if you can, containing all the other "sorts of unflattering things" that I have called you.  
 
So, Bob, I am going to let the "court of public opinion" here in the Forum be the judge. I, personally, have nothing to prove, but I felt as though I needed to defend myself, because, YES, I considered it a personal attack.  If the folks here choose to believe your fact-challenged "expertise"  with regards to me, my gaming, my casino status, etc - so be it.  All you have achieved in my mind, Bob, was to illustrate how dangerous it is, when you may have "skill" in a certain area, but then take yourself too seriously with regard to what you believe that you know, and that gives you some kind of "right" to judge another's behavior. 
 
I do not care what you think you know, Bob, but my message to everyone on the Forum is that I have no agenda, with no reason to fabricate anything. I am a Gold member on this site, and if anyone chooses to 'pick my brain' on any casino-related subject, via Forum posts, VIP Chat or PMs, I will respond as I always have - honestly, based purely on my own personal experiences.     

[New2vp]

Hey guys, I vote for a truce.  I don't post much anymore but I felt I had to here.You are both too good for the forum to continue to feud.  Billyjoe, since you've joined this forum, up until recent times, it was clear to me that you scored well into the 90+ range (out of 100) on having fun, having lots of casino experience, and loving video poker.  I can also see that you're bright but I might score you lower than 90 on some of the "math-ier" subjects.  I don't think it's important enough to research any particular post, but I seem to recall a couple areas in which you thought subjectivity had a place in an argument that was totally objective in my viewpoint.  I don't expect you to agree, especially since I haven't taken the time to dig up examples, but please don't take this as being intentionally disparaging.  I come in peace.  And if you don't believe me, please ignore this entire post.  Billyjoe, up until now, I would have guessed that you could get along with just about anyone...and I would give you a 90+ on making friends and making those around you comfortable.Bob, you haven't seen a lot of my posts, but I think shadowman, Frank Kneeland, and some others might be able to attest that I have a bit more math knowledge than is necessary to solve most video poker applications.  But that knowledge isn't aided much by my very little actual casino experience.  I've been reading your writings since the late 90s, but before that I was self-taught in developing strategy charts (mostly by trial and error) using WinPoker's error detectors after seeing the software advertised in Andrew Brisman's Mensa Guide to Casino Gambling (that might have been around 1997). Certainly you score 90+ on video poker math and strategy; a few errors over the decades have kept your score a bit below 100, but unlike Billyjoe, I probably wouldn't have scored you at 90+ on making others feel comfortable.  Often it seems, you would rather make a point than let someone escape with their dignity, though who knows you probably are a nicer guy than you portray in some of your posts and columns.  Your readership probably isn't all that interested in niceness; generally, they want to know about the right way and the wrong way to do things.Myself, I know I would have to work a lot harder to score in the 90s in making friends as well as billyjoe than I have had to do in understanding video poker math and strategy at the 90s level.  Edit:  I definitely would have to work harder to get as many pictures with cocktail waitresses as bj has posted.My point?  Yes, I take too long both in making points and typing these posts.  Why don't you both let this one go...maybe start over and appreciate the good qualities of the other guy?  Or go ahead and both attack me.  I don't read these posts as often as I used to, so my feelings won't be hurt too badly.Best of luck, skill, and friendship!

[sam434343]

Yes, billyjoe i see that you are a above ground good person,You have told me things some you agreed on others didnt but you have seemed to do it in descent way. I think sometimes big wiggs,bosses,ect.ect. try to step on people makes there mound of dirt look better here on this earth. I was a boss that had alot of self employed people working for me as was i self employed, and when i was young made lot mistakes but i tried to learn from them and tried to listen to people i worked with because if they had better idea than me to do something i would try it  and yes sometime there idea was much better than mine.Sometimes they were no good idears. I can tell you onething never will get a award for writing i no good at that LOL! Sam

[BobDancer]

 
  How can I NOT respond . . .?
  

          Well, you did give your word. For some that would be reason enough.       I'll tell you what. I'll stop posting about BJ --- unless and until he starts talking about his money management theories again --- which he refers to as stop loss and stop win. If he brings that up, I'll criticize them again. His theories are dangerous. There's a possibility that somebody here might actually believe they have merit. People should be warned otherwise. Bob corrected formatting issue. -Webman

[royal flush]

i think you and bj both made your points. I like you go strictly by math and you made alot of money selling your books and flashcards as i see many tourists refering to them. this had an unintended effect of the casinos elimimating most good plays only leaving 25c fpdw $1 10/7 db some games that are slightly positive on bonus point daysand an occaisional high progressive game that folks like frank play. thats free enterprise good for you. now i play more live poker like omaha 8 or better as i can get a bigger edge without hurting my fingers

[BillyJoe]

[QUOTE=billyjoe] 
 
  How can I NOT respond . . .?
  
 
 
        Well, you did give your word. For some that would be reason enough.
 
      I'll tell you what. I'll stop posting about BJ --- unless and until he starts talking about his money management theories again --- which he refers to as stop loss and stop win. If he brings that up, I'll criticize them again. His theories are dangerous. There's a possibility that somebody here might actually believe they have merit. People should be warned otherwise.
 
Bob [/QUOTE]
Oh, Bob.... Geez  
 
If you actually believe that Money Management is not important to the recreational VP player, then I do not know what else to say to you on that subject.
 
I have no 'theories". I have an approach that I personally use when playing VP that seems to work for me. That's all. I am sure that you have some kind of approach when you play VP that you believe works for you to help you be as successful as you can be. It is just different - that's all. 
 
If someone asks me about my approach, which has happened previously on this Forum, I will answer them. I do not encourage or endorse any 'system' for Money Management, other than I believe that every recreational player, like myself, should have some kind of a thoughtful approach when they enter a casino regarding what is a reasonable expectation to have in playing VP.  
 
I honestly do not understand why you believe that concept to be so threatening to you. Let's let the folks on the Forum, whom I beleive to be mostly recreational players, decide who has their best interests at heart.
 
BTY - I will CONTINUE to respond to your posts in defense of myself if I am personally attacked by you. So, Bob, it is really up to you.    

[damule]

I would just like to add a small tidbit to the current bickering between two of my favorite members on this forum. The following is an excerpt from today's Bob Dancer article:"The other woman planned on going to a 5:30 p.m. religious service that
evening and being bumped would have gotten in the way of that. I'm not
religious, but this was "just" a regular weekly mass, so it didn't seem
like a big deal to me. She was being given a choice between $1,000 for
the two of them or going to the church service. And she chose the
service??? This is so far away from what I would have chosen that it
borders on being incomprehensible. I wonder how many other people would
have made the same choice."The paragraph reminds me of something an experienced ole sage shared with me years ago: "Some people are green, some people are blue."Just goes to show us that what are priorities to some are not priorities to others. My suggestion here to both billyjoe and Bob: Just let it go and agree to disagree. Some of what Bob writes probably does not come across with the intent as planned and billyjoe is usually just way too gregarious to be this upset.JUST LET IT GO GUYS AND MOVE ON!!!Or, we can give you two fellas spiked clubs and let you fight to the death...

[faygo]

Gimme  that Royal!  I tried all the strategies.. Stupid  machines are rigged.

 
 
 
 

[Tedlark]

Rock, paper, scissors?

[BillyJoe]

I would just like to add a small tidbit to the current bickering between two of my favorite members on this forum. The following is an excerpt from today's Bob Dancer article:"The other woman planned on going to a 5:30 p.m. religious service that
evening and being bumped would have gotten in the way of that. I'm not
religious, but this was "just" a regular weekly mass, so it didn't seem
like a big deal to me. She was being given a choice between $1,000 for
the two of them or going to the church service. And she chose the
service??? This is so far away from what I would have chosen that it
borders on being incomprehensible. I wonder how many other people would
have made the same choice."The paragraph reminds me of something an experienced ole sage shared with me years ago: "Some people are green, some people are blue."Just goes to show us that what are priorities to some are not priorities to others. My suggestion here to both billyjoe and Bob: Just let it go and agree to disagree. Some of what Bob writes probably does not come across with the intent as planned and billyjoe is usually just way too gregarious to be this upset.JUST LET IT GO GUYS AND MOVE ON!!!Or, we can give you two fellas spiked clubs and let you fight to the death...



Mule, I really do not mind if Bob disagrees on any points that are made on the Forum. What I DO object to, however, is his use of the Forum platform to make wild claims about me that are totally untrue.