How much do we still not know?

[ko king]

I tried to candy coat the situation myself early in my play there using the same logic as yourself, more chances at flushes is a good thing. The "four to the flush off the deal" should be converted somewhere in the neighborhood of a 19% success rate so when this happens it's all good. It becomes a problem and reflects quality hands when the amount of that hand goes up and the conversion rate goes down, which it did and by a pretty considerable amount. On average I was converting about 1 every 8 opportunities, now spread that out over 100's of thousands of hands. This type of thing will almost always go unnoticed by novice and rec players but I happened to keep track of it. Believe me I wanted to think it was only short-term but it was persistant and always present. I even questioned the casino slot manager and brought this to thier attention, I ask was I playing standard ClassIII vp machines just like the vp that could be found at Vegas or Tunica and all they would say was "it was comparable to that of other casino", when I ask what "comparable" meant the rep became agitated and suggested if I was not happy with thier product I was free to play elsewhere, which is what I did.

[ko king]

Just for kicks I thought I'd add these bits of usefull info to give you an idea of how big a conspiracy theorist I really am. The state I live in isn't exactly known for thier honest polititions and regulators, they have quite the reputation. The sale of lottery and scratch tickets was approved a while back and they got in a little hot water because they were doing a very good job of preventing winnings tickets from escaping thier grasp, the head of the lottery commission was fired and an article came out saying she had been replaced and the whole problem was basicly blamed solely on her and the problem had been solved, in short, nothing to see here, now move along. The approval for the couple of casinos we now have was a long hard fought road and was pushed hard for by a pretty influencial state politition, she played a huge part in getting the okay for the casinos. Shortly after the casinos opened up she quit her government position and went to work for the casinos as a lobbyist of some sort. I also became friendly with a lady that was on the state gaming commission, she was always at the casino and seemed to pretty much run things even though she admitted she knew nothing about any of it really in the beginning. She must have learned quickly though because I was told she was hired by the casino to handle affairs between the casino and the gaming commission, it all seems so ugly and dirty with the possibility of a great movie plot, all the good stuff that adds up to a great conspiracy theory.

[shadowman]

If I saw a conversion rate of 1 out of 8 over 100sK of hands then I would also be very suspicious. The probability of that is extremely low. Sounds more like class II machines.

 
I would say you did the proper analysis once you suspected something was not right. That's why I tell people to collect data if they are suspicious. The casino management response was also quite suspicious. Have you reported this to the appropriate agency in your state?
 
Good job.

[ko king]

I thought the same as you, had to be class II machines and I had missed something or just plain old made a mistake. They stuck to thier claim of the machines being class III and the state regulations seemed to reflect the same. I think I did as much as one player could do, I provided the information but was told the machines were operating within the acceptable curve which I believe was 82% payback, the rest of my claim was ignored and layed off on DDB could be a aggressive and unpreditable game and maybe I should play a lower denomination. I pushed the issue a bit further and told them denomination should have no reflection on my results and the whole issue of "four to the flush off the deal" disappeared when I switched to playing the progressive bank of vp machines at the same casino, I also pressed pretty hard to get an answer to the "comparable" response but dropped the whole thing when I got a somewhat thuggish and threatening response that made me realize that sometimes the answer may be just to walk away and leave well enough alone.

[sam434343]

ko king, Curious as to who you got the thuggish and threatening response from, was it from the casino that you questioned or from your state commission also would like to know what State this casino is in  won"t   go there. Thx and good luck. Sam

[ko king]

Sorry but I left that info out for a reason, I was just contributing my experience to the subject of the thread "How much do we still not know". I'm happy where I'm playing now and along with DDB vp they have TDB, right before Christmas I went in and started playing $1 denom DDB and hit a couple of Quads right off the bat so I switched to $2 denom TDB and starting hitting like crazy. I hit quad 2's for $800 then hit quad kings for $500, cashed out on that machine and hit quad Aces w/k for $8K on my first play on the second machine. The hits kept coming, quad 3's w'k for $4k and hit quad 4's three times for $800, quad after quad kept coming. I actually got tired of playing vp and went to eat, right after I came out of the restaurant I played the first slot machine I saw and hit it for $1,500, after they paid me I played another slot and hit it for $5K. I decided to play one more vp machine before I headed home and hit quad 2's w/k again for another $4K.

[BillyJoe]

Sorry but I left that info out for a reason, I was just contributing my experience to the subject of the thread "How much do we still not know". I'm happy where I'm playing now and along with DDB vp they have TDB, right before Christmas I went in and started playing $1 denom DDB and hit a couple of Quads right off the bat so I switched to $2 denom TDB and starting hitting like crazy. I hit quad 2's for $800 then hit quad kings for $500, cashed out on that machine and hit quad Aces w/k for $8K on my first play on the second machine. The hits kept coming, quad 3's w'k for $4k and hit quad 4's three times for $800, quad after quad kept coming. I actually got tired of playing vp and went to eat, right after I came out of the restaurant I played the first slot machine I saw and hit it for $1,500, after they paid me I played another slot and hit it for $5K. I decided to play one more vp machine before I headed home and hit quad 2's w/k again for another $4K.
YOWSER !! What a run !! 
I hope that didn't screw up any planned tax withholding that you had for 2012..

[sam434343]

Okay, sounds like you did good, good for you, ko king,  To me casino are legalized way to print money for them and there State and Federal goverment and it is good when we can take some from them. LOL. Sam

[ko king]

Okay, sounds like you did good, good for you, ko king,  To me casino are legalized way to print money for them and there State and Federal goverment and it is good when we can take some from them. LOL. Sam




I love to play but to honest if all the casinos were shut down tomorrow it wouldn't bother me a bit. I'd just spend more time working, maybe find me another project car to fix up and play more golf. Instead of "take" the correct word may be "borrow", we have a guy and his wife around these parts who loved to play the high denomination slots and show off the pictures of thier jackpot wins. Both were bragging all the time about all the money they won, never once did you hear about a losing trip. In the end though the truth finally came out, they ended up losing thier bisiness and almost everything else they had, you won't catch either of them near a casino anymore. I on the other hand will let you know quick that the losing trips far out-number the winning trips and it's a very expensive habit that I wish I didn't like so much.

[DaBurglar]

^^^ Awesome post Ko King, I empathize and agree 100% The primary reason I only play 25 cent level credits when I play Video poker has to do with the fact that amongst my friends and family that I have seen play, and know personally, too many people who have literally wrecked their lives chasing ever bigger "hits".   It also helps that I am anally retentive about keeping records and data about my play, which helps a person see the "true big picture" and not just selective positive memories!  I find it funny (sort of) that amongst my circle of friends and family who gamble and play VP, the 8 or 9 of us who keep track of our play and share our data with each other are the only ones who ever "LOSE", while everyone else who dont bother to keep records are the ones who always "WIN".....lol 90 percent (more than that actually) of all my VP of the past decade has been quarters, the rest is dollars or even NICKELS when I play certain multi line games with 5 cent credit settings.   When I factor in ALL the comps, freebies, meals, bonuses, promotions, etc.  over my lifetime of playing and keeping track, my losses are insignificant in terms of the impact they have on my lifestyle but the VALUE of entertainment and thwarting of boredom (and keeping me away from more harmful activities like Booze, smoking crack and banging hookers 3 at a time) is far greater than the monetary cost... In fact, in VEGAS, since the mid 1990s, I am actually on the plus side as far as Video Poker goes, but my lifetime profitability has been harmed by the last 4 years or so of playing in AC, but all the free rooms and stuff AC has handed over while eating my money in VP has offset the damage quite a bit, but this is mainly due to my sticking only to 25 cent level play...... I truly believe you reach a plateau of diminsihing returns when it comes to comps and benefits of play, that there is a certain MAX level of value/utility a player reaches whereby increasing one's play to a higher level just doesnt make any sense at all.   ANyone else agree or see something different?