Mississippi Coast query

[rascal]

Headed to the Mississippi Coast soon and looking for Ultimate X 10-play DDB with decent paytables; and STP 10-play DB or DDB with decent paytables. VP Free doesn't seem to be of much help. Any Coast regulars have any tips? Thankee.

[Vman96]

Headed to the Mississippi Coast soon and looking for Ultimate X 10-play DDB with decent paytables; and STP 10-play DB or DDB with decent paytables. VP Free doesn't seem to be of much help. Any Coast regulars have any tips? Thankee.

Unfortunately, it's probably because none of those games have decent paytables. I have yet to see a 10-play DDB Ult X that exists above 8/5 anywhere in the country...lol (I know they exist in offstrip Vegas).

Unfortunately I haven't personally been to Biloxi to say what is the best they have. The best STP I am aware of in Tunica is "Airport Deuces" at Bally's for quarters (98.91%/99.19% with STP).

[spxChrome]

The grand casino has 2 machines of Ult X I believe don't know the paytable since I don't play it.  But they have several of those kind of games like quick quads, double play STP.  I think the only thing they are missing is Spin Poker.

[BillyJoe]

I just returned from Biloxi. Unfortunately, in general, VP appears to me to be shrinking. Most of the casinos that I visit have switched to single-line games with poor paytables. It seems that any VP game that could expose the casino to a large payout are gone.

[rascal]

So how am I supposed to make my house payment? 

[DaBurglar]

It seems that any VP game that could expose the casino to a large payout are gone.
  Bingo!!!   This is one of the points I have been harping on when discussing how and why a casino (in AC anyway) would mess with the game to ensure more crappy hands and far fewer premiums. The business model casinos operated on for years, where they were virtually assured of making LARGE profits, is no longer viable.   Many things have changed in the marketplace, the economy, the customer base(s), and the competition (it is no longer just the casinos down the street or across it;  it now encompases casinos ALL over the country and the world as well as the INTERNET! People who mindlessly repeat the mantra "Casinos dont need to cheat (at VP), they make money no matter what!"    Well that may still be true in the LARGER, Long term technical sense, but in today's reality/marketplace, SHORT TERM losses due to the BIG HITS that are possible on VP machines, can be truly problematic, even devastating to a casinos MONTHLY (or quarterly) balance sheet .... this is so because MANY casinos these days are operating on the brink, barely eeking out profits or in Bankruptcy, etc.    This is why they are seeking to eliminate as much VP as possible, and leave what VP is left with totally crappy insulting paytables,   They are replaced by penny slots, which not only ACTUALLY INCREASE the amounts players bet and lose in the immediate short term, the Penny machines ALSO greatly reduce the casinos' exposure when a player actually does win and hits a so called "Jackpot" on a penny slot!      Royal Flushes happen far more frequently and pay far more credits (dollars) than the Biggest jackpots on most penny machines, and the few Penny slots that have Progressive Biggie jackpots in the tens of thousands, or even millions, hardly ever payoff! The economy crash of 2007 and subsequent malaise and stagnation totally brought to a halt the ridiculous upward trajectory of casino profit/growth....but what has prevented a full recovery, besides the stupidity and greed of the casinos who burdened themselves with debt and who also change and adapt to the evolving world at far too slow a pace, is this:    The main Casino Demographic customer base, which is primarily middle class and below in terms of wealth and spending power, is largely TAPPED out! Think about this:   The nature of the "Gambling Industry" (i.e. "Gaming" for you euphemistic guilty consciences out there) is to concentrate more and more the wealth of so many individuals into the hands of a VERY VERY few companies and individuals (hello Steve Wynn you arrogant haughty P R | C K!) ..... The concentration of wealth at the top of the proverbial pyramid is what PLAGUES our present day economy in general, as the richest 1% continues to grow and control MORE and MORE of the country's wealth (and the same with the rest of the world!)   And drilling down further into the economy with respect the gaming industry, this situation of wealth concentration is even more prolific and dangerous!   There is (was) NO way the casinos could continue to grow and multiply at the rate they were given the nature of the business, whereby players are guaranteed to LOSE overtime, unless more and more players continue to enter the gambling industry and the existing players find greater sources of wealth to fund their gambling habits.....things that really are NOT possible in the long run.     The TOTAL number of people/customers who WILL gamble is fairly finite (many non gamblers will never gamble for either religious/moral reasons or because they simply dont like it and realize it is a losing proposition.)  Furthermore, the people who WILL play and gamble have a set amount they can wager (so say the casino executives Like Gary Loveman himself when he admonishes all Caesars customers "Bet with your head and set and keep limits!")    I say that people have been or have reached their limits, many a while back, and even exceeded it to some extent to the long term detriment to both themselves AND the gaming industry. My conclusion:   Things will generally only get worse from here on out for the OVERALL gaming industry, winners will become fewer and fewer, losers will increase and then disappear althogether, until a stabiling plateau is reached somewhere down the line, and everyone starts and remains fighting over the same sized pie.....

[Lumpenprol]

Post unable to migrate

[rascal]

The degradation of VP is a long term phenomenon.  In 2005 my wife and I were, I think, staying at South Point, and from one day to the next, they removed a bank of FP DW games.   These were small denomination games and Royal hits would not have impacted the bottom line, but they were still pulled, and let’s face it most of us don’t have perfect play, and so a game with a 101% pay out is not a serious contender for major, regular cash loss.  Downgrading of VP is a multi-variable decision, but a significant factor has to be the current oligopolistic structure of the casino industry.  Whenever Harrah’s buys a property, what remains of VP generally becomes unplayable, and other casinos seem to be following that model. 
 Eviscerating VP is largely attributable, I think to decision makers who have an undifferentiated perspective on casino visitors.  To them slots are slots, be they DDB or Sex in the City, and players are mindless sheep waiting to be fleeced.  Give them bells, whistles, an occasional “jackpot”, a few comps, and they are hooked.  Unfortunately, to some degree this may not be too far off the mark for most casino visitors.  Such a perspective allows them to reduce paytables and thereby marginally increase short term profits without any downside.
 This model may be far less accurate than the MBAs making decisions in the gambling industry think.  Certainly tourists on cruise ships and Vegas, and convention goers everywhere, will drop a few hundred in slots and VP and get excited with the noise and colors, and not have a clue as to whether the games they are playing is 9/6, 8/5, or 7/4.  But what falls outside of their model are knowledgeable players, who are not committed to a particular casino, but to certain games and certain payouts on those games.   For years I went to Trump Plaza, and The Donald got more from me that I from him, but when the entire bank of FP All Americans disappeared I stopped going and so did dozens of others with whom I am familiar.  This also happened to me at Belterra in Indiana when the dropped their 50 and 100 play Super Aces.  I think the mistake I make is that I leave quietly.  Probably, if those of us who quit a casino because of their VP downgrades would inform the appropriate executives, they may realize that such decisions rather than helping resolve their economic dilemmas, may contribute to them.  < id="clsid:38481807-CA0E-42D2-BF39-B33AF135CC4D" id=ieooui> <> st1:*{behavior:url(#ieooui) }
 






Yep, I'm in Biloxi, and the Beau Rivage, with its horrible paytables, is packed. Packed, that is, with mindless players who are validating the casino wisdom that PT Barnum was correct.

[BillyJoe]

[QUOTE=Lumpenprol]
Yep, I'm in Biloxi, and the Beau Rivage, with its horrible paytables, is packed. Packed, that is, with mindless players who are validating the casino wisdom that PT Barnum was correct.
And  I will be back at The Beau next week..

[BillyJoe]

The degradation of VP is a long term phenomenon.   I think the mistake I make is that I leave quietly.  Probably, if those of us who quit a casino because of their VP downgrades would inform the appropriate executives, they may realize that such decisions rather than helping resolve their economic dilemmas, may contribute to them.  
When I started going to Vegas, I was a Steve Wynn guy, staying exclusively at the Mirage, and I had a great host. When Steve sold to MGM, I observed the downward spiral of customer service and available games to play. I went through about three different casino managers there with complaints and threats to leave if they didn't put in some at least 'reasonable' VP options. I finally surrendered, and became a Caesars' client. Not that they are much better, mind you, with regard to VP paytables, but I am treated very well by Caesars on Vegas visits, and once you 'train' your host as to what you need, things seem to happen smoothly. I also find more willingness of CET's upper casino management to listen to their 7Star players. The same cannot be said of MGM with their NOIR players.
 
The overall attitude toward players, though, seems to be property dependent. I am treated fabulously as a NOIR at MGM's Beau Rivage in Biloxi, but not so much at MGM properties in Vegas.